Jeremy Bambers Injuries

[Jane]

......................  I provided you all the relavenat passages regarding such is you memory that short or are you just that dishonest?
TROUBLE IS, MOST OF US IGNORE WHAT YOU SAY BECAUSE WE FIND YOUR TONE OBJECTIONABLE



But only the people who are actually objective are willing to face and discuss all the evidence


Those like yourself with an agenda can't so won't and instead have to live in denial to make your fantasy claims work
WE COULD TURN YOUR LAST TWO POINTS AROUND AND DIRECT THEM BACK. THEY APPLY EQUALLY AS WELL, FROM WHERE WE'RE SITTING, TO YOU

[grahameb]

So much for a 'fine mist distribution' 

Yes I think that was just one of scipio's clever inventions. Nowhere does any report anywhere mention a "fine mist" of blood.

[scipio_usmc]

The rifle stock was used to bash Nevill largely by striking his face, arms and head with the butt in such manner:

   

Some people suggest that instead the killer held the rifle by the barrel and wielded it like a sledgehammer.  There are several pieces of evidence though that tell us that is not what happened and that it was wilded like in the photo above.  The killer helpd the narrow portion of the butt with one hand, the forwgrip with the other and jabbed Nevill with the butt.

I. The stress fractures to the stock

The rifle stock had several stress fractures and a piece that actually sheered off.  The stress fractures and piece that sheered off all ran in the same direction.  The fractures were all horizonal.  Why would the wood fracture horizontally?

Picure walls closing like something out of Indiana Jones.  Imagine the rifle stock being in between the walls with the metal buttplate against one wall and the smaller side against another.  How will it fracture as the walls compress it?  It will fracture the same way the murder weapon's stock did.  There will be horizontal fractures as it is squeezed.

The same force will be at work if the butt of the rifle stock is being bashed into something.   The stock is being crushed between the person pushing and the object being stuck, so it will be compressed.

If instead the gun were being swung like a sledge hammer then the damage would have been different.

1) the barrel could be bent or broken free from the receiver.  The murder weapon has a lightweight barrel that is not likely to hold up if the weapon is furiously wielded like a sledge hammer.  Depending on the location of a strike the barrel could actually bend in which case forget about firing it again until a new one is obtained.

The gun breaks down in half.  The barrel and foregrip as one unit and the receiver/stock as the other unit. 



Note the small section of the barrel that slides inside the receiver.  A great deal of force is going to damage it one way or another.

2) The stock attaches to the receiver in a rather simple way. The receiver has a metal projection sticking out at the end:

 

The wooden stock has a hole to match this and slides on it.  The trigger guard is screwed into the receiver on one end and the stock on the other and this is how the stock stays attached.  If the gun is used as a sledgehammer with the stock being the hammer part what is the first part of the stock that start to fracture?  The wood around the metal projection will start to fracture because the wood is going to be stressed against the metal projection.

Were there any fractures or damage to the area where it slides into the metal projection?  No.  Yet if the stock were being bent left, right, up or down that is eactly where the stress would be, where it stildes onto that projection.

Since the barrel was not damaged, the stock was not damaged near the porjection and instead was damaged by a motion of being compressed from front to back this tells us the rifle was used to bash Nevill like the photo demonstrates.

II. Lack of cast off

The gun had blood on it and that blood largely got on it when Nevill was being bashing.  He had blood on his body and that blood was mainly projected onto the weapon and the killer.  When someone swings a blood covered object like a stedge hammer or axe the blood on it is cast off onto other objects.  When the object is raised back up blood is cast off onto the ceiling and the wall behind the person swinging the weapon.  The ceiling did not have any cast off blood nor did any walls. This indicates the gun was not swung like an axe and confrims that the weapon was used in the striking motions shown the photo above.

III. Nevill's wounds

Nevill's wounds to his arm, face and head are all consistent with being hit by the butt of the rifle.

He had skin ripped off a finger, bruising to his elbow and his forearm had the wounds seen below.  The butt of the stock was jabbed into his arm and left gouges. The flat bottom, top or sides of the stock do not make gauges like that.  It was made by the butt of the rifle glancing off and digging in.



The buttplate has ridges and can thus gouge but worse look at the sharp corners of the butt



Nevill raised his right arm blocking his face with it. His elbow was facing to his right and his hand to his left.  The killer was striking his arm with the butt of the rifle.   


 


 

   

[scipio_usmc]

WE COULD TURN YOUR LAST TWO POINTS AROUND AND DIRECT THEM BACK. THEY APPLY EQUALLY AS WELL, FROM WHERE WE'RE SITTING, TO YOU

All that amounts ot is projection.  WHen people who are irraitonal and living in denial or have some other flaw try to pretend they don't have the flaw and instead pretend others do it is called projection.

The evidence is sqaurely on my side including the conviction while all you do is live in fantasy land.

It is impossible for the killer not to have gotten back spatter and GSR on his/her clothing.  The killer also had to have worn gloves to avoid leaving any prints in blood.

If Sheila were the killer such gloves and clothing had ot have bene in the house.  Where were they?  No where because she wasn't the killer.  That doesn't even take into account the wounds she would have suffered.

But all evidence is simply ignored not refuted and then people who cite the evidence you are unable to refute are called biased because they don't also baslessly dismiss evidence that you don't like because it is so damaging to Jeremy.

If you want people to reject the moderator evidence then you need to provide evidence to refute it not make up wild claims you can't prove and that clearly are baseless.

WHen peopel project it is just more evidence they have no leg to stand on so go right ahead.   

[Patti]

The rifle stock was used to bash Nevill largely by striking his face, arms and head with the butt in such manner:

   

Some people suggest that instead the killer held the rifle by the barrel and wielded it like a sledgehammer.  There are several pieces of evidence though that tell us that is not what happened and that it was wilded like in the photo above.  The killer helpd the narrow portion of the butt with one hand, the forwgrip with the other and jabbed Nevill with the butt.

I. The stress fractures to the stock

The rifle stock had several stress fractures and a piece that actually sheered off.  The stress fractures and piece that sheered off all ran in the same direction.  The fractures were all horizonal.  Why would the wood fracture horizontally?

Picure walls closing like something out of Indiana Jones.  Imagine the rifle stock being in between the walls with the metal buttplate against one wall and the smaller side against another.  How will it fracture as the walls compress it?  It will fracture the same way the murder weapon's stock did.  There will be horizontal fractures as it is squeezed.

The same force will be at work if the butt of the rifle stock is being bashed into something.   The stock is being crushed between the person pushing and the object being stuck, so it will be compressed.

If instead the gun were being swung like a sledge hammer then the damage would have been different.

1) the barrel could be bent or broken free from the receiver.  The murder weapon has a lightweight barrel that is not likely to hold up if the weapon is furiously wielded like a sledge hammer.  Depending on the location of a strike the barrel could actually bend in which case forget about firing it again until a new one is obtained.

The gun breaks down in half.  The barrel and foregrip as one unit and the receiver/stock as the other unit. 



Note the small section of the barrel that slides inside the receiver.  A great deal of force is going to damage it one way or another.

2) The stock attaches to the receiver in a rather simple way. The receiver has a metal projection sticking out at the end:

 

The wooden stock has a hole to match this and slides on it.  The trigger guard is screwed into the receiver on one end and the stock on the other and this is how the stock stays attached.  If the gun is used as a sledgehammer with the stock being the hammer part what is the first part of the stock that start to fracture?  The wood around the metal projection will start to fracture because the wood is going to be stressed against the metal projection.

Were there any fractures or damage to the area where it slides into the metal projection?  No.  Yet if the stock were being bent left, right, up or down that is eactly where the stress would be, where it stildes onto that projection.

Since the barrel was not damaged, the stock was not damaged near the porjection and instead was damaged by a motion of being compressed from front to back this tells us the rifle was used to bash Nevill like the photo demonstrates.

II. Lack of cast off

The gun had blood on it and that blood largely got on it when Nevill was being bashing.  He had blood on his body and that blood was mainly projected onto the weapon and the killer.  When someone swings a blood covered object like a stedge hammer or axe the blood on it is cast off onto other objects.  When the object is raised back up blood is cast off onto the ceiling and the wall behind the person swinging the weapon.  The ceiling did not have any cast off blood nor did any walls. This indicates the gun was not swung like an axe and confrims that the weapon was used in the striking motions shown the photo above.

III. Nevill's wounds

Nevill's wounds to his arm, face and head are all consistent with being hit by the butt of the rifle.

He had skin ripped off a finger, bruising to his elbow and his forearm had the wounds seen below.  The butt of the stock was jabbed into his arm and left gouges. The flat bottom, top or sides of the stock do not make gauges like that.  It was made by the butt of the rifle glancing off and digging in.



The buttplate has ridges and can thus gouge but worse look at the sharp corners of the butt



Nevill raised his right arm blocking his face with it. His elbow was facing to his right and his hand to his left.  The killer was striking his arm with the butt of the rifle.   


 


 

   

Poppycock!!! It is documented that the injuries sustained to NB's arm were from the barrel of the rifle and not the butt....

Do you work at Asda? lol

[No-Bits]

Poppycock!!! It is documented that the injuries sustained to NB's arm were from the barrel of the rifle and not the butt....

Yes that is what a vastly experienced forensic pathologist deduced, having examined first hand both the wounds and the rifle.

Poppycock? I think it's utterly absurd that a person on this forum with very little information to hand, can not only claim that Vanezis's findings are inaccurate,  but actually make fun of his findings as if they are so obviously outrageous.

A professional person who was so highly regarded, that he was selected to carry out a post mortem on Princess Diana.

Poppycock? I'd have to agree!

Just saying. 

[grahameb]

Yes that is what a vastly experienced forensic pathologist deduced, having examined first hand both the wounds and the rifle.

Poppycock? I think it's utterly absurd that a person on this forum with very little information to hand, can not only claim that Vanezis's findings are inaccurate,  but actually make fun of his findings as if they are so obviously outrageous.

A professional person who was so highly regarded, that he was selected to carry out a post mortem on Princess Diana.

Poppycock? I'd have to agree!

Just saying. 

I'm interested as to how the butt of the rifle broke? I would have though that it would have hit a hard surface and not something soft like Nevill's arms or head?

[No-Bits]

I'm interested as to how the butt of the rifle brok? I would have though that it would have hit a hard surface and not something soft like Neill's arms or head?

Stone floor is my best guess. 

[lookout]

 Vanezis was spot on in the initial findings when he examined Sheila ( suicide ), but was sadly forced to do an about turn once the police forced the issue of Jeremy having killed her.

This is what happened in the Ian Tomlinson case where it was denied that the police had used undue force,and the coroner went along with what police had otherwise stated. The said coroner was dismissed from his post when it was found that Mr Tomlinson indeed,died from his injuries and not natural causes

I quote," No one doubted that a thorough examination of the bodies had been carried out by Dr Peter Vanezis,the Home Office pathologist,and there were no suggestions at the inquest that anything contradictory to the police theory of the murders had been discovered,unquote ".

"All forensic,medical and scientific experts were informed of EP's belief that it had been 4 murders and a suicide ".

[Jan]

No, it wasn't wiped.

Interesting. So there should have been Jeremys prints  from where he picked up the rifle and or Sheilas ( and I still think he would have tried to put her prints on there as if she had used the gun) also if Neville had put the gun away there could have been his prints on there   - but there was only one partial print and the blood could not be grouped . So is it true that  sheilas prints were on other guns in the house?

[No-Bits]

Interesting. So there should have been Jeremys prints  from where he picked up the rifle and or Sheilas ( and I still think he would have tried to put her prints on there as if she had used the gun) also if Neville had put the gun away there could have been his prints on there   - but there was only one partial print and the blood could not be grouped . So is it true that  sheilas prints were on other guns in the house?

It's a claim that has been made, I have seen no evidence to support this claim.

[Jan]

It's a claim that has been made, I have seen no evidence to support this claim.

thanks

I do like to see documentary evidence - so I will put those claims to the back of my mind .

But no prints found on the rifle or in the blood on the rifle - except for one partial print.

Any ideas why?

I guess everyone is assuming gloves were used that removed previous prints. I just find it odd that if Jeremy planned everything that he did not think of that "problem"

And As I said before I would have imagined there could have been fibres from the gloves .

Were there any other reported forensics from the rifle ?

[lookout]

Somehow,I don't get the fact that Jeremy would broadcast to those he knew,that he was going " to kill his parents ",knowing full well that word would soon get round.
Didn't he ever expect a knock on his door at any time ? Or a large hand on his shoulder ?

Is it usual for a killer to say,and also to carry out his intentions ? Or was it one of those phenomenas that occur once you've said something,then it happens ?
A sad example being the guy who took a pic of the stricken Malaysian plane and told someone that " this is the plane in case you don't see it again ". He didn't mean what he'd said,he was being jocular referring to the other " missing " Malaysian flight. See what I mean ?

[scipio_usmc]

Yes that is what a vastly experienced forensic pathologist deduced, having examined first hand both the wounds and the rifle.

Poppycock? I think it's utterly absurd that a person on this forum with very little information to hand, can not only claim that Vanezis's findings are inaccurate,  but actually make fun of his findings as if they are so obviously outrageous.

A professional person who was so highly regarded, that he was selected to carry out a post mortem on Princess Diana.

Poppycock? I'd have to agree!

Just saying. 

Vanezis did not examine the rifle.  Nor did he say the wounds to the arms were definitely caused by the barrel which even if true would not negate my points about the way the rifle hit the head which many want to ignore.  He didn't say anything about the barrel of the rifle causing the wounds to the head.

Vanezis said they COULD have been caused by a linar object WITH A ROUNDED END.  He did not say it was caused by the rifle barrel.  A rifle stock is linear as well and is known to cause linear wounds including linear skull fractures and the end of it can cause the relatively round wounds on the arm though they are not perfectly round by any stretch.

The suggestion maybe they were caused by the rifle barrel doesn't hold up though when one looks at the actual marks made by a barrel and mind you he made the claim without taking into account that the barrel was threaded and worse the moderator was attached.

He didn't try to piece together what actually happened in total.

When you piece it together and look at the evidence proving the stock was bashed against his skull causing "severe fractures", and that this is what Nevill was trying to block it with his arm then it puts things in perspective.

Vanezis never claimed the rifle barrel was bashed against the head or even the face.  Indeed that would fail to account for the fractures to Nevill's skull or the damage to the rifle stock.

Why would Nevill block the rifle barrel (which still would likely result in the moderator hitting him in the head unless of course it was the moderator he was blocking) but the killer saw this was going no where so flipped the gun to hit him with the stock and then he let the killer bash his head in but not try to block with his arm anymore?

Vanezis didn't even want to discuss what damage might occur to fingernails because his understanding with respect to firearms and anything related to them was not that strong and clearly that is the case because his analysis is left wanting in some respects as a result.



"such injuries could have been caused by multiple blows by a linear object with a rounded end either by hitting the forearm with the side of the linear object, 3 or possibly 4 times and 4 times with the rounded end of that object"

So he is saying it would require hitting the arm 7-8 times.  3-4 with the side of the object and another 4 with just the round end.  There was a moderator attached so how could the rounded end of the barrel have hit his arm?  The end was concealed by the moderator.  In the meantime a rifle barrel will not cause the bruises he thinks.  He did not test to see what damage will be caused by the side of a linear object with a round end and ventured no guess as to what force would be required.  That is what lab personnel were to try to figure out.  I have seen what damage a rifle stock will do and it can cause deep abrasions and fractures.

It would be interesting to see what Vanezis would say today and if he has anymore experience or went through additional training with respect to guns.

[scipio_usmc]

Interesting. So there should have been Jeremys prints  from where he picked up the rifle and or Sheilas ( and I still think he would have tried to put her prints on there as if she had used the gun) also if Neville had put the gun away there could have been his prints on there   - but there was only one partial print and the blood could not be grouped . So is it true that  sheilas prints were on other guns in the house?

Something to bear in mind is that Jeremy wanted this gun not Nevill, Nevill's interest in shooting was waning according to testimony.

Jeremy initially wanted a semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun.  Why?  He claimed to shoot game. He was told such is not sporting so he could only have a double barrel 12 gauge.  He didn't want it because it only had 2 rounds and he wanted a semi-auto.  The only semi-auto he could find was for target and varmint shooting.  That alone should mmake someone wonder why he wanted a semi-auto so bad and why he otlaly lost interest in trying game hunting when he found out he could not get a semi-auto.  Funny that at this time he was also formulating a plan to kill his parents...

There is no evidence that Nevill used this gun much if ever to shoot animals and barely went target hunting.  Nor any that Jeremy used it to ever shoot rabbits.  He was known to target shoot with it a few times merely.  The gun was barely used when Anthony found it. Expecting Nevill's prints on a gun he barely used is not too realistic.  Subsequent use will remove them unless they are in remote places.

Blood can cover prints as well.  But when a gun has blood on it and is being manuvered a lot the killer would be extremely likely to leave a print in the blood.  The killer used gloves quite clearly.

There were 5 prints total on the gun, 4 of them were latent prints that superglue fuming revealed but 3 were just partials and could not be matched to anyone.   

As for Sheila's alleged prints on the shotguns, this appears to be another made up fable.  I cna't find any evidence of this at all and of course Mike can't provide any actual evidenc ehe just claims he has seen evidence...

For a while I gave him the benefit of the doubt but that shipped sailed.