Jeremy Bambers Injuries

[JackiePreece]

Scipio you seem to have a good knowledge of the case could you point me in the direction of where I could find Julie Mugfords witness statement where she details Jeremy's injuries from the night of the murders and can you recollect how many times she was interviewed?

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio you seem to have a good knowledge of the case could you point me in the direction of where I could find Julie Mugfords witness statement where she details Jeremy's injuries from the night of the murders and can you recollect how many times she was interviewed?

She was allegedly spoken to by police 33 times.

He worse gloves thus did not receive any injuries of import.  While some say he had scratches or abrasions/marks of some kind on his hands there is no way to establish such would have to have been from the murders.  While punching someone in the face often will result in abrasions and cuts to knuckles, particualry when strinking the jaw, teeth or breaking bones we have no way to know if Jeremy beat Nevill's face in severely with his fists and gloves would mitigate most damage anyway from such.

Jeremy supporters have a much larger problem because Sheila would not have been wearing gloves had she done it and had long nails so aside form getting cuts and abrasions would have broken her nails or gotten skin and blood of Nevill under her nails and worse the stock as it broke would have cut her hand. These kinds of things would be quite evidence not able to be hidden when her body was autopsied. 

Moroever she would nto have had any reason to wash evidence from her body and change her clothes  or opportunity to conceal clothing she had been wearing. Had she been the killer her clothing would have had gunshot residue and blood spatter on it.  Because the close range of many shots she would have had high velocity spatter from the victims but also medium velocity from beating Nevill.  That would have resulted in quite a bit of spatter. The lack of any prints in blood is also consistent with gloves being used.

Jeremy had a reason to use gloves and to wash and change after the murders.  He told Julie they had been used and the forensic evidence tends to support that. He also had the opportunity to change and wash after the murders.  That could very well explain the big gap between calling Julie at 3AM and then police at 3:26Am.  Of course he could have started washing up before he called Julie and finished afterwards.

Since police did not search his house for bloody clothing or insepct his body for wounds right away we have no way to know if he had already disposed of the clothes he worse or not or whether he did have any marks that might have been obtained despite the gloves.     

[lookout]

The sniffer dog would have smelled blood and gunshot on Jeremy,,even if he'd have bathed or showered,or both,as it happened,the dog wasn't interested.  Unlike the the sniffer dogs in Portugal who went mad.

[grahameb]

The sniffer dog would have smelled blood and gunshot on Jeremy,,even if he'd have bathed or showered,or both,as it happened,the dog wasn't interested.  Unlike the the sniffer dogs in Portugal who went mad.

In fact no forensic evidence connects Bamber to the crime.

[lookout]

In fact no forensic evidence connects Bamber to the crime.

Which immediately draws you to suspect that he WAS convicted by " other " means,namely hearsay !

[Caroline]

The sniffer dog would have smelled blood and gunshot on Jeremy,,even if he'd have bathed or showered,or both,as it happened,the dog wasn't interested.  Unlike the the sniffer dogs in Portugal who went mad.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/may_2011/The%20Current%20Status%20of%20GSR%20Examinations

"Gunshot residue particles can be removed easily from the surfaces they land on. Regular activities, such as putting hands in pockets, rubbing hands together, or handling items, can wipe them away.4 The washing of hands can remove most, if not all, particles. Rates of loss vary widely with the activity of the subject. Depending on conditions and activity, particles may be removed from a shooter’s hands within 4 to 5 hours after a shooting event.5 They also can transfer from a surface or person to another individual; the amount depends on the number of GSR particles on the contaminated surface (e.g., a person’s clothing or hands) and likely will be a small percentage of the total number of particles present. Tests show that people standing within 3 feet to the side of a shooter may have GSR on their hands, whereas those standing 10 or more feet in the same direction typically will not.6 This can vary with the type of gun and ammunition, number of shots fired, and the environment of the shooting. Gunshot primer residue also can travel downrange with each firing of a weapon.7 Long guns, like rifles and shotguns, tend to leave less GSR on shooters than handguns."

[lookout]

 Blood smells would still be detected,plus cadaverine,which can be detected regardless, for days.

[Jan]

She was allegedly spoken to by police 33 times.

He worse gloves thus did not receive any injuries of import.  While some say he had scratches or abrasions/marks of some kind on his hands there is no way to establish such would have to have been from the murders.  While punching someone in the face often will result in abrasions and cuts to knuckles, particualry when strinking the jaw, teeth or breaking bones we have no way to know if Jeremy beat Nevill's face in severely with his fists and gloves would mitigate most damage anyway from such.

Jeremy supporters have a much larger problem because Sheila would not have been wearing gloves had she done it and had long nails so aside form getting cuts and abrasions would have broken her nails or gotten skin and blood of Nevill under her nails and worse the stock as it broke would have cut her hand. These kinds of things would be quite evidence not able to be hidden when her body was autopsied. 

Moroever she would nto have had any reason to wash evidence from her body and change her clothes  or opportunity to conceal clothing she had been wearing. Had she been the killer her clothing would have had gunshot residue and blood spatter on it.  Because the close range of many shots she would have had high velocity spatter from the victims but also medium velocity from beating Nevill.  That would have resulted in quite a bit of spatter. The lack of any prints in blood is also consistent with gloves being used.

Jeremy had a reason to use gloves and to wash and change after the murders.  He told Julie they had been used and the forensic evidence tends to support that. He also had the opportunity to change and wash after the murders.  That could very well explain the big gap between calling Julie at 3AM and then police at 3:26Am.  Of course he could have started washing up before he called Julie and finished afterwards.

Since police did not search his house for bloody clothing or insepct his body for wounds right away we have no way to know if he had already disposed of the clothes he worse or not or whether he did have any marks that might have been obtained despite the gloves.     

Yes despite Annes close inspection no wounds to Jeremy

The second part does not make sense - if you are acknowledging there were scratches and gouges to Neville by saying there should be evidence under Sheilas Nails then there is a flaw - you can not scratch and gouge whilst wearing gloves? And if you did the fibres would be in the wounds - so forensically even in those days ( considering the blood tests) that would be EASY to prove?

Lastly the bit about SC cutting herself on the gun stock is pure supposition,

[Caroline]

Blood smells would still be detected,plus cadaverine,which can be detected regardless, for days.

Not if you have showered and changed clothes and cadaverine forms during purification so wouldn't be relevant in this case. If guilty, he would certainly have cleaned himself up.

[nugnug]

well that's true but where did he put hes bloody clothes if he had done it to traces of blood were found in his cottage did he wash them or throw them away.

if he had a shower traces would of been left in the shower.

[scipio_usmc]

The sniffer dog would have smelled blood and gunshot on Jeremy,,even if he'd have bathed or showered,or both,as it happened,the dog wasn't interested.  Unlike the the sniffer dogs in Portugal who went mad.

There is no evidence of a sniffer dog having been present.  This is jsut one of the wild tales made up by Jeremy supporters.  All that was reported was that there wa sa K9 unit not any sniffer dog.  A k9 unit was brought so that if necessary they could have the dog try to subdue a gunman to save the life of officers. It sounds callous but they sometimes make the dog risk getting shot while trying to subdue the gunmean so officers can safely enter after.

[scipio_usmc]

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/may_2011/The%20Current%20Status%20of%20GSR%20Examinations

"Gunshot residue particles can be removed easily from the surfaces they land on. Regular activities, such as putting hands in pockets, rubbing hands together, or handling items, can wipe them away.4 The washing of hands can remove most, if not all, particles. Rates of loss vary widely with the activity of the subject. Depending on conditions and activity, particles may be removed from a shooter’s hands within 4 to 5 hours after a shooting event.5 They also can transfer from a surface or person to another individual; the amount depends on the number of GSR particles on the contaminated surface (e.g., a person’s clothing or hands) and likely will be a small percentage of the total number of particles present. Tests show that people standing within 3 feet to the side of a shooter may have GSR on their hands, whereas those standing 10 or more feet in the same direction typically will not.6 This can vary with the type of gun and ammunition, number of shots fired, and the environment of the shooting. Gunshot primer residue also can travel downrange with each firing of a weapon.7 Long guns, like rifles and shotguns, tend to leave less GSR on shooters than handguns."

And?

If she shot everyone then went and shot herself what acitivisties would she be doing that would result in the GSR being transferred elsewhere so no longer on her body?  It doesn't just vanish it gets transferred elsewhere during activity.

Not mentioned there is that GSR remains longer on clothing and hair even when people are active.

Also not considered is that she supposedly held the rifle up and down adjacent to her body essentially hugging it as she shot which would certainly get GSR on her gown.     

We already know base don other evidence she can't have killed herself the lack of GSR on her fgown and hands is simply more evidence of that.  She certainly can't have washed herself after she died and would not have been moving around transferring it from her clothing and hands after she died.

The cited FBI statistics means that even if some were found that would not necessarily be proof she fired a gun because proof requires a substantial amount of GSR but to have none at all is even worse.

[scipio_usmc]

Yes despite Annes close inspection no wounds to Jeremy

The second part does not make sense - if you are acknowledging there were scratches and gouges to Neville by saying there should be evidence under Sheilas Nails then there is a flaw - you can not scratch and gouge whilst wearing gloves? And if you did the fibres would be in the wounds - so forensically even in those days ( considering the blood tests) that would be EASY to prove?

Lastly the bit about SC cutting herself on the gun stock is pure supposition,

I said that someone with long nails fighting with someone will usually get somethign stuck under the nails in the course of such struggle but there was zero evidence of such under her nails.

Moreover, someone engaged in such a struggle would break their nails. Someone with long nails wielding any object even a baseball bat is likely to damage their nails while beating something with such.

As for the point about the broken stock damaging a hand it is a sound claim.  Someone beating Nevill with the rifle would indeed be holding the gun in thee narrow part of the stock not the wide part of the stock.  The hand would thus be where the stock broke and the notion that as it broke this would do nothing at all to the hand is highly unlikely. 

Gloves do not leave fibers ordinarily unless they are knits or they are torn.   

[lookout]

There is no evidence of a sniffer dog having been present.  This is jsut one of the wild tales made up by Jeremy supporters.  All that was reported was that there wa sa K9 unit not any sniffer dog.  A k9 unit was brought so that if necessary they could have the dog try to subdue a gunman to save the life of officers. It sounds callous but they sometimes make the dog risk getting shot while trying to subdue the gunmean so officers can safely enter after.

Yes,there was a dog and handler outside WHF that night/morning.

[scipio_usmc]

Yes,there was a dog and handler outside WHF that night/morning.

as I stated there was a k-9 unit called and the reason for k-9 units in gunman situations is so that if needed the dog can attack the gunman and distract it so that officers can safely subde the gunman without being shot.

You need to provide prrof that  adog is strained for sniffing and WHAT it is trained to snif for in addition to proof the dog did snif somewhere for something in order to establish it was a sniffer dog and failed to detect.

You and other Jeremy supporters simply assume it was a sniffer dog without a shred of evidence and even seem to insist it could sniff out everything under the Sun.

When you have evidence it was trianed to sniff for something in particular and evidence that is was used in such capacity in this case come back to me.