A shooting incident at White House farm

[nugnug]

i can understand bews being out of his detph and some of the others.

but the armed unit shouldent of been i mean surely they had dealt with situations like that before.

[lookout]

The armed unit would have been equipped with bullet-proof vests anyway,,so what kept them ?

They didn't give a toss,did they ?

[nugnug]

and they would of had trianing as to what to do in a situation like that.

[lookout]

 Of course they would. It's a specialized job within the police,,and to be prepared to storm in given any eventuality concerning firearms. They do it in drugs raids,,where there are arms.

This alone should have come up for question and people should be reminded of it.

What annoys me intensely,is the smarmy letter that RWB sent to EP after the trial.

EVERYONE covered their own backs at the expense of Jeremy !

[nugnug]

also they dont seem to have tried comunicate with anybody in the house.

[lookout]

 Either way of this particular episode in the murders,if there had have been communication,then they should have let Jeremy know,the same as if there hadn't been anyone alive inside,,he still should have had an explanation as to why they WASTED nearly 3 hours. Jeremy just accepted that they were " all doing their jobs ".Not good enough-----------and he wouldn't have realised this until it was too late,as so much had happened, to try and get his head around all that had happened. It's no wonder he took off abroad.
A guilty person would have hung around to keep up to speed with developments ! They're frightened of missing anything in case they haven't got a quick enough answer.

[Roch]

I don't know for sure what ACC Simpson's motives may have been; he was clearly placed under a lot of pressure. But let me offer one thought. I don't think that Essex Police actually wanted Jeremy Bamber convicted at the trial. I think they put up a weak case with a very dodgy chief witness who they probably thought the Jury would not believe. They offered no evidence in relation to four of the murders. Most people thought Jeremy would be acquitted.

Maybe the best possible outcome politically for ACC Simpson and EP was for Jeremy to be acquitted. They could then have said to the relatives, "Look, we did our best but the evidence did not persuade the Jury. Sorry, but there is nothing more we can do". The relatives would have grumbled and moaned, Jeremy would have walked free, his reputation tarnished and lingering doubts would have existed about his innocence. He would have been hounded by the gutter press. His life would have been miserable.

Instead EP got the worst possible scenario. A young man who protested his innocence and doubts were voiced about the safety of his conviction straight away. A man who continues to protest his innocence and by doing so has caused EP to become embroiled in on-going controversy and if I may say so, become involved in creating ever more desperate-looking and highly implausible explanations about some of the emerging evidence. i.e. "Police in conversation with someone from inside the Farm" "Oh that was a reference to Jeremy Bamber" - who do they think buys that?

So, in my view this was not some clever and devious widespread conspiracy. This was policy being made on the hoof; pretty much always reactive in nature. They tripped themselves up with the evidence.
And, I bet EP still regret the fact that Jeremy was found guilty.

Anyway, just a thought.

Excellent post.

[Roch]

Dear Grahame, There is no mystery over the timing of my appearance. I have been reading posts on this website for a year or so, wondering whether to share information and ideas. I decided to share some information. I have no other agenda; I'm not here to wind anyone up. Now, as to the facts, in my original post please see below.

FACT: At 03:26 the situation at WHF was a domestic dispute; with no reported casualties

FACT: At 03:36 the situation at WHF was a domestic dispute; with no reported casualties

FACT: According to records made by PC West and Malcolm Bonnett, no communications occurred between 03:36 and 03:48 with any police vehicles

FACT: At 03:42 PC West received a report from BT that the telephone line at WHF was ‘busy’ i.e. engaged

FACT: At 03:48 the police arrived at Pages Lane and prepared for a siege

FACT: At 04:04 the FSU were withdrawn from Colchester before any report had been received from WHF (this was not broadcast until some 5 minutes later) in preparation for an armed siege

FACT: At 04:08 approximately Acting Inspector Targrass reported to Chief Superintendent Harris a “shooting incident” at WHF – before any report had been received from PS Bews

FACT: CA7 did not communicate any information from WHF until 04:09 – and there was still no report of any casualties or shots being fired

FACT: At 03:48 when CA7 containing PS Bews, PCs Saxby and Myall arrived at Pages Lane they parked 200 yards distant

FACT: Between 03:48 and 04:05 approximately CA7 and Jeremy Bamber waited for around 15 minutes before PS Bews and PC Myall approached WHF with Jeremy Bamber out in front

FACT: PC Saxby remained at the police car even though, in theory, there was nothing for him to do

FACT: PC Saxby was said to be waiting for further messages – where were they going to come from if Jeremy Bamber was already with them?

FACT: They stopped 100 feet from the Farmhouse and crouched behind a wall.

FACT: They saw that the kitchen lights were on

FACT: Jeremy Bamber pleaded with PS Bews to enter the property

FACT: PS Bews refused to go any closer than 100 feet

FACT: PS Bews refused to even consider trying to rescue anyone inside the Farmhouse

FACT: Essex Police abandoned the occupants of WHF to their fate

FACT: PS Bews ran away when they saw a figure in a bedroom window

FACT: CA5 with PCs Cracknell and Norcup took 50 minutes to complete an 18 mile journey to WHF on deserted roads, in an Area Car equipped with blue lights and two-tone siren. A journey that can be done in between 15-20 minutes.

FACT: None of 5 police officers who initially attended the scene approached the Farmhouse

FACT: None of the 5 police officers who attended WHF in CA5 or CA7 faced any disciplinary charges for dereliction of duty, despite the FACT that they did not attempt any rescue or even consider any rescue options
All of the above facts can be found in witness statements contained in the archive section of this website.

I would like you to consider some further facts please.

FACT: When PC Michael West received a telephone call at Chelmsford police station prior to 03:30 on 7th August, (around 03:26), PCs Cracknell and Norcup were in the control room with him

FACT: PC West did not mention that PCs Cracknell or Norcup were in the control room with him in either of his two witness statements

FACT: PC Cracknell and PC Norcup heard whatever telephone conversation PC West had at approximately 03:26

FACT: As a result of hearing the telephone conversation that took place at 03:26 PCs Cracknell and Norcup discussed the content of the telephone call with PC West

FACT: As a result of their conversation with PC West, at 03:33 CA5 containing PCs Cracknell and West commenced their journey to WHF from Chelmsford police station

FACT: Despite the point that the telephone call at 03:26 is highly controversial and subject to much dispute as to who the caller was (Nevill or Jeremy Bamber), Essex police have never asked PCs Cracknell or Norcup to divulge what they heard in the control room or indeed, to confirm that the caller was Jeremy Bamber.

FACT: PC West faced disciplinary charges over the falsification of an incident recording sheet. Even though PC West was in need of assistance, PCs Cracknell and Norcup did not come forward to support him or corroborate his version of events. I find this significant.

FACT: PC West in written evidence twice and after being questioned on oath at Jeremy’s trial, insisted that he received a telephone call from Jeremy Bamber at 03:36, not 03:26. He stated that he did not make a mistake in reading the time, despite what was subsequently reported

FACT: If PCs Cracknell and Norcup could confirm that it was Jeremy Bamber who called PC West at 03:26 rather than Nevill Bamber, they would be priceless witnesses for the prosecution – the FACT that they have not been required to give evidence is strongly suggestive that they in FACT heard a telephone call from Nevill Bamber, thus giving Jeremy Bamber an alibi.

FACT: All of this information is contained in witness statements in the archive section of the Bamber Forum website.

Once you have all these facts at your disposal you have to draw some conclusions. Inevitably one has to speculate somewhat, which is not a problem if speculation is based on facts. My conclusion is:

PCs Cracknell and Norcup know what was said to PC West at 03:26. They had a conversation with him; they must know whether it was Nevill or Jeremy Bamber who telephoned at 03:26. They have remained mute. If they could confirm that the call was from Jeremy Bamber they would have given evidence to that effect. This leads one to the inescapable conclusion that the 03:26 telephone call was from Nevill Bamber, which is exactly the impression given from looking at the documentary record made by Malcolm Bonnett at Essex Police HQ Information Room. “daughter gone berserk -has got hold of one of my guns”

If you read Andrew Hunter's unpublished manuscript from 2005, it does place importance on the incredible speed in which a request from the scene for an armed response was ok'd.  I can recall something like it being within four minutes of the request, seemingly based on the fact that dogs were barking.

It doesn't add up for all the reasons given re how things were done in that era.

[nugnug]

to me it don't sound credible that an armed response unit would be sent because of a couple of barking dogs.

[lookout]

Perhaps if they'd gone sooner,they just might have heard the screams of people too.

[nugnug]

so the got a report someone is running with a gun and send unarmed cops but then these cops complain about a couple of barking dogs and they send an armed unit.

ive never heard so much bullshit in all my life.

[scipio_usmc]

so the got a report someone is running with a gun and send unarmed cops but then these cops complain about a couple of barking dogs and they send an armed unit.

ive never heard so much bullshit in all my life.

Me either but such BS is coming from Jeremy supporters.  The unarmed cops were worried about being shot and the hostages potentially being shot not because they might get attacked by dogs. 

[lookout]

 Now I'll quote what RWB stated after the trial " I have nothing but admiration for the painstaking and diligent manner in which I believe they set out to achieve ( EP ) the task that was assigned to them.I consider it was to the highest standards of their profession,unquote ". More bullshit !

Apparently the Police Complaints Authority were waiting with bated breath of the family ( relatives ) approaching them for a public inquiry over the handling of the case.

Remember at the beginning when RWB threw a wobbly ?? Well he gained his composure once Jeremy was out of the way,and probably spent the rest of the time working out,one for you,two for me,etc-----thousands,that is. Funny how money perks you up,isn't it ? Makes you forget everything else.

[nugnug]

Me either but such BS is coming from Jeremy supporters.  The unarmed cops were worried about being shot and the hostages potentially being shot not because they might get attacked by dogs.

so why were they sent there unarmed in the first place.

who ever sent them obviously wasn't worried about that.

[lookout]

Me either but such BS is coming from Jeremy supporters.  The unarmed cops were worried about being shot and the hostages potentially being shot not because they might get attacked by dogs.

And the non-supporters !