Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055630 times)

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Offline buddy

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I can't help thinking inside padding was due to maybe old washing transferral or something similar, it's also plausible with what you have written that these were transferred via contact with other clothes or fingers but what about the hoodie? It's could of course been processed correctly by someone else. In true form with this case though it throws up problems when you think you have answers as wasn't there a single sperm head found on the vaginal swab also.
Gordo, it is possible that Jodi was performing oral sex, and the semen got into the bra padding
that way. It seems that quite a lot of semen was on Jodi's front, and the semen on the hood was
from a standing male.

Offline buddy

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Gordo, it is possible that Jodi was performing oral sex,
maybe unwillingly and the semen got into the bra padding
that way. It seems that quite a lot of semen was on Jodi's front, and the semen on the hood was
from a standing male.

Offline gordo30

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Were not talking semen or ejaculate though were talking 1 single spermhead

Offline marty

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Jodi never had her phone so why would Luke know which phone to text, different if he was texted first then he would just respond to the number he was texted on. I don't see him just text JuJ in case she was nowhere near Jodi at the time.

Was jodies phone not broken, would luke not have known this from school. It may have been a ploy to try and get jodi ungrounded as teenagers would do. Put the thought in jujs head as they would have known that jujitsu would have read it.

Offline gordo30

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A bit of a long shot though, Luke still couldn't have been sure where JuJ was or even that any text to JuJ phone would ever have got to Jodi. Why would Luke bother as jodi's grounding meant that she was out at 6 anyway and he had put Jodi off till later in those texts.

Offline marty

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He would have known when he got a reply, jodi surely would have told him what phone he could get her on and what the number was. Did he know juj phone number before that day? If Joe is phone had been broken more than a day then they will have discussed how he could get in contact with her the easiest.

Offline gordo30

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Jodi smashed her phone against a wall sometime the week earlier, its just that the texts started around 4:35 and in the texts it appears Luke put Jodi off coming down to his until later s0 if that scenario was true it meant they did all that for her to be out approx 15 mins early.

Offline marty

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Sorry I may be picking it up wrong. By jodi being un grounded early I wasn't aware that she was going to be un grounded that night. The way I understood it, it was an off the cuff thing by juj to unground her that evening.

Offline marty

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I thought that was always part of Luke's defence or should have been. How could he be waiting prepared to pounce on her when he never knew she was un grounded.

Offline gordo30

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Yes your right but grounding in the Jones household meant Jodi could go out at 6pm after chores so not the normal grounding we all assumed.

Offline marty

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I'm confused  ???

Offline sandra L

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Was jodies phone not broken, would luke not have known this from school. It may have been a ploy to try and get jodi ungrounded as teenagers would do. Put the thought in jujs head as they would have known that jujitsu would have read it.

One of the most confounding aspects of this case was trying to work out the mobile phones. I don't remember the exact configuration any more, but it went something like this:

JuJ bought identical phones for JoJ and Jodi (but not for JaJ) for Christmas, but they got mixed up and the one that was intended for Jodi went to JoJ and vice versa. JoJ gave his old phone to his mum, then decided he didn't like the new phone, so used his old sim card in his mum's phone (i.e. his own, old phone) "sometimes." Jodi sometimes carried her sim card from her broken phone, in order to be able to put it in friends' phones. Somewhere in the six months between Christmas and June, JoJ took his old phone back from his mum, or maybe he didn't, and she went back to using her old phone, or maybe the new one she'd bought for JoJ. JaJ's phone was a contract phone, but it was registered in JuJ's name. A statement attributed to JoJ gave his phone number to police but it turned out it wasn't the number from his old phone, or the new phone his mum had bought him for Christmas. Another statement attributed to JoJ said he didn't know why he'd given that number, and didn't know whose number it was.

Still with me?

Then the police labelled the phones wrongly, and maybe the phone registered as Jodi's was actually the one they'd been told was JaJ's - the one registered to her mother - or maybe not.

GD's phone was registered to his dad. JF ... well, he had a phone, but sometimes he didn't, and just like his bikes, he swapped his phones too, but the phone he thought he had at the time belonged to someone else entirely (just like the gloves found hidden in YK's house.)

Everybody keeping up here? Jodi's sim card was never recovered, but a sim card is recorded in the evidence all on its own - nothing to identify where it came from, or to whom it belonged.

AW had a mobile phone, JuJ claimed to have called it repeatedly on the night of June 30th, but no calls from JuJ to AW's mobile were found on AW's phone logs until (from memory) about 2 o'clock in the morning. That means that after AW left her house with the search trio (prior to the police arriving at JuJ's house to take the missing person's report), JuJ could have had no idea where her mother was, what she was doing, or with whom. JuJ told the police that night "My mum's out looking for Jodi" - no mention of anyone else. In a later statement, she said "Somehow, they all met up."

JaJ claimed she spoke to her mum on her mobile phone at 23:18, when the search trio were "still in the complex" (i.e. had not met up with Luke yet). The timing of this call from phone logs is verified because JaJ said her mother was saying the police had just arrived - we know the police radioed in their presence at JuJ's house at 23:18.

Sk had a phone, but it had no credit in it. He took it with him anyway, and was able to make the 999 call to police telling them the search party had found a body. The number logged by police as having made this call did not match the numbers of any of the phone details passed to the defence.

My head hurts!


Offline marty

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good god

Offline sandra L

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I'm confused  ???

According to various members of the family, when Jodi was first grounded (on any occasion she was grounded, not only the period leading up to her murder), she wasn't allowed out at all (except to go to her grandmother's house). Then, the grounding was relaxed a little, and she was allowed out between 6pm and 9pm, but only to hang out "up here" (e.g between Easthouses, where she lived, and Mayfield, where her Gran lived.)

An "ungrounding" meant she could go out before 6pm, return at her usual curfew of 10pm, and go wherever she wanted - she didn't have to stay in the local area.

There are a number of questions about this version of the grounding, its relaxation and final lifting.

Firstly, her sister and Gran gave statements that it was nothing like as structured and strictly monitored as eventually claimed - more a case of a couple of days restriction, then freedom (i.e. go out when and where you like, be home for 10) in return for "extra chores" to be done, according to JuJ's own statements, at times that suited Jodi.

Secondly, we know she didn't see Luke as much on the weekends because he went to his dad's, so Jodi could do her extra chores when Luke was away, in order to give her maximum free time when he was home.

Thirdly, Jodi and Luke were together until after 10pm on the Saturday before she died (Saturday 28th June). She was definitely with him before 6pm, and definitely missed her curfew of 10pm (Luke had to call a taxi to get her home when they realised it was after 10 o'clock). So she wasn't "grounded" by the claimed definition (or any version of it) two days before she was murdered.

Fourthly, JuJ gave an account of what she believed Jodi's most "recent" patterns had been when she went out of an evening - Jodi went to an area that was well outside the "up here" area - an area  apparently proscribed by the grounding, and got a bus home for 10 - Jodi would call or text if the bus was late.

Finally, and perhaps crucially, regarding all the talk of a sudden ungrounding, on Monday 30th June, both her sister and her Gran said in statements that all elements of "grounding" had "worn off" and it was business as usual, at least a week before the murder. JaJ was even able to give specific dates, based on exams she was sitting at the time.

Offline sandra L

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The whole clothing angle where we have the police asking SK about the possiblities that jodi shared/took JaJ's clothes was put to SK in the first interview is that right?
We also have Jodi's aunts giving out details that jodi was always using JaJ's clothes sometime before that? or after?
AW doing the washing the very day after the body was discovered.

No, The police went back to SK to ask about Jodi borrowing JaJ's clothes 10 days - 2 weeks later. It was at this time that JaJ said she had two identical t shirts - she had one, but couldn't find the other, and thought it could have been the one Jodi was wearing when she was murdered. Reading that statement, however, it looks like JaJ was specifically asked the question "Could Jodi have been wearing your T shirt," rather than JaJ spontaneously offering that possibility.

The aunts made their public appeal on 15th July (just after Sk and JaJ's statements make reference for the first time, to Jodi borrowing JaJ's clothes.) they said:

"She borrowed her sister's clothes, was untidy at times and liked to tease her brother"

We know, from all of the statements, that  the bit about "teasing her brother" is not true.

The aunts' public appeal is quite odd in a number of ways - I'll deal with that in my next post.

AW said she started doing the whole family's washing (even though they lived in different houses) when Jodi died (not after Jodi died, but when she died.) May just have been her way of speaking, of course