Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055446 times)

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Offline sandra L

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Wow 8 pm was roughly the time I was thinking for Jodi making her way towards Lukes, still early enough for her to see him before getting home before curfew and after the timing of JF being there. I can't help feeling that Jodi had stumbled upon something and someone she knew on her way to Luke's when she decided to make her way there. She wasn't going there at 5 but later on, it's where was she and what was she doing that's the problem and the DNA available is speaking volumes I just don't know what the hell its saying

Ever since I learned of the "shoo... be quiet... go out" comments, I've thought there might have been a reason Jodi had to leave far too early for meeting Luke. The vague text about meeting "later" also concerns me. In the weeks leading up to the murder, they had a fairly reliable routine of sorts - a group of them would meet up around 6pm. (Even Jodi's mother said so.) That week was different because some of the group they usually met had gone off on a school trip.

From memory, Luke texted Jodi at 4.34 to ask if she was coming out that evening, she responded that she was, where would she meet him, Luke responded saying she could come down to Newbattle after tea, she responded that she'd be down "later." Did that mean later than "after tea" (which, up until then, had been 6 o'clock?) Of course, we can't know any of this because, the texts were deleted from both phones, but that was Luke's earliest recollection, on the night. He called the house at 20 to six to say that was him finished his tea and "out" (not, as has been repeatedly reported, to find out where she was) - he was told she'd "left" (not "left to meet him" as was later claimed). he says he waited about half an hour (the time he would have expected Jodi to take to get to Newbattle if she'd only just left home at 20 t0 6), then went to the Abbey and hung around there, after telling his mum if Jodi turned up at the house to tell her he was in the Abbey.

All of this suggests Luke originally was expecting Jodi later than 6pm, that expectation only changing with the 5.40 call - when Jodi didn't show, he wouldn't necessarily have thought anything of it - the "later" text would have suggested she had something else in mind before getting to Newbattle.

When I very first met him, three and a half months after the murder, he told me he wasn't sure what Jodi might be doing "in between" and didn't want to call her house again  in case he got her into trouble.

I've never seen anything to suggest there were sightings of Jodi after 5.05pm but the public was never asked about seeing someone who could have been Jodi anywhere else except the Easthouses Road and Roan's Dyke path - I said this at the time, and have been saying it ever since - the very young pictures of Jodi and the decision to concentrate on one small area, instead of areas Jodi was known to frequent meant that witnesses who may have thought they saw someone who could have been Jodi in, say, the Mayfield area would never have come forward, because that wasn't what police were looking for. Also, it was three days before up-to-date pictures of Jodi were circulated, just adding to the confusion.

Offline sandra L

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If DD was indeed walking his dogs in the woodland strip we have had dogs abuse (pun intended) about why Mia hadn't detected the body on the way up as dogs react to these things so why didn't DD's dogs not do the same thing , is this another reason that the body wasn't there at that time or simply that it had just been around this time that death occurred

A sample from the sole of DD's boot tested positive for the presence of blood. Now, to be absolutely clear, the positive presumptive test is meaningless without further testing to ascertain that the substance is actually blood (and human blood at that) rather than, say, horseradish sauce, which gives the same result initially. but can you imagine how that would have been used had it turned up on the sole of Luke's boots?

We only have DD's word that his dogs didn't react. He took his dogs diagonally across the farmer's field to the V break in the wall, then gave the command "over" - seven of the dogs scrambled through the V break, he had to lift the eighth one through because it was old - why? Why didn't he just take the dogs along Lady path and into the woodland strip at the big break - no need for dogs to jump through a break in a wall more than 4' from the ground, and no need to lift an old dog through either.

Offline sandra L

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As we know, hardly a single word of JaF's statement can be believed - we know it was his condom and that's about it. But interestingly, he claimed it was getting "grey dark" and he thought it was about 9 - 9.30. It didn't start getting dark until around 10.30 that evening, but even if he was mistaken about the level of darkness, what can we make of the time? Another mistake? An outright lie? Or the truth, in which case, either he did, in fact, step over Jodi's body, or she wasn't there.

JaF and the D's lived in the same street, not far from each other - I didn't know for a long time whether they knew each other or not, but have since found out they did. I don't know if that is of any relevance, or just a neutral fact - just putting it out there.

Offline gordo30

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At what time on that night did DD put the dogs through the v break, is this the same break in the wall that jodi's body was in situ? Ok you said around 8 pm sry but these dogs were Spanials and beagles of my memory is correct , traditionally cadaver dogs.
Was DD investigating the scream around 8 pm did his Dogs find the body as wasn't there leaves and soil found on the abdomen area of the body is this testimony of dogs finding a body , could he have discovered the murderer performing the post mortem mutilations? ( ok clutching at straws a bit there but not totally unreasonable)

Spell check has been a pain sry
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 07:56:PM by gordo30 »

Offline gordo30

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That's a hard one as we can place him at the scene that day and we have to believe that the sensitivity of why he was there was far more important to him than what time , if he says it was getting dark then 9-9:30 seems too late for me and the murder occurring. I was always under the impression it was after 7 pm that he was there.

Offline notsure

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I'm getting a bit lost here who is doing and jaf , sorry.


Offline gordo30

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I'm sry we always abbreviated the names as there are so many people involved in the case we would be writing them constantly.

DD is David dickie father to Gordon dickie the youth on the motorised bike, he lived closest to the scene.
JaF is James falconer the owner of the condom found at the scene but only discovered a match 3 years later due to another crime that led to his DNA being on the data base. He had convictions before the murder and should have been flagged up in this case before but for some reason he never was.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 08:30:PM by gordo30 »

Offline notsure

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I'm sry we always abbreviated the names as there are so many people involved in the case we would be writing them constantly.

DD is David dickie father to Gordon dickie the youth on the motorised bike, he lived closest to the scene.
JaF is James falconer the owner of the condom found at the scene but only discovered a match 3 years later due to another crime that led to his DNA being on the data base. He had convictions before the murder and should have been flagged up in this case before but for some reason he never was.

thanks , good god the more I learn about this case the more I begin to think this has been one massive set up.


Offline gordo30

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It gets worse mate but I hope to finally get an idea of what went on that night backed up with what real evidence there is, some of it might have to be fitted into a context away from the official line but there is a need for this case to be kept in the public domain.

Offline sandra L

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The use of abbreviations is in part because the names and connections get way too confusing, but also to avoid naming private individuals who have the right to both privacy and the same presumption of innocence as everyone else. Makes it a bit difficult to discuss the case in any sort of detail, though

Just wanted to take this opportunity (again!!!!) to point out that nobody here is making, or attempting to make, allegations about anyone - except perhaps... no definitely... Lothian and Borders Police, whose handling of the case was so inept as to be open to derision from every direction.

However, since Lothian and Borders Police no longer exists as a unit, I guess there can be no harm done there.


Offline sandra L

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At what time on that night did DD put the dogs through the v break

Who knows? From an original statement (backed up by an independent witness) it was between 8 and 8.30pm. By the time it got to court, it was anywhere between 4.45 (impossible for the witness who gave this statement to have known, because, by his own admission, he wasn't there) and "some time that evening" from other witnesses who were proven to have lied repeatedly.

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is this the same break in the wall that jodi's body was in situ?
According to the official line, yes, with the proviso that Jodi's body was, in fact, 16.3 metres west of the break in the wall

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Ok you said around 8 pm sry but these dogs were Spanials and beagles of my memory is correct , traditionally cadaver dogs.
Spaniels, eight of them, all claimed to be "working" dogs, but not cadaver dogs as such - game dogs, sniffing out and bringing back rabbits, pheasants, etc


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Was DD investigating the scream around 8 pm did his Dogs find the body as wasn't there leaves and soil found on the abdomen area of the body is this testimony of dogs finding a body , could he have discovered the murderer performing the post mortem mutilations? ( ok clutching at straws a bit there but not totally unreasonable)

Interesting Gordo30. Leaves and soil on the abdomen area? Wouldn't there have been leaves and soil everywhere on Jodi's body? Please forgive me here, but there were so many wounds on her body, leaves and soil would have clung to all of them. I'm not sure how dogs finding her would have altered that?



Offline nugnug

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    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
i find it hard to belive that the spaneils wouldent of sniffed out the body but that goes on the assumption that there was a body there at the time.

Offline sandra L

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That's what's so frustrating nugnug - far too many changed stories to pin anything down with any certainty. For example, there was a witness who was adamant s/he saw DD go across the fields and behind the wall with his dogs sometime between 8 and 8.30pm. This was based on the timings of television shows the witness watched that evening. Why was that not accepted as a credible account - all it needed was a quick check of the tv times.

Then, at least, there would have been a fixed time - all that needed to be ascertained after that was - was Jodi there at that time or not? Of course, if she wasn't, the whole police case collapses right there - not meaning to sound cynical, but could that be the actual reason the witness statement was ignored?

Offline gordo30

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did DD ever say he had taken the dogs out at a later time that night or more simply again, going on the premise that dog owners like to give their dogs a last run out before they themselves would be soon to bed and his dogs are of a very active sort?

Offline sandra L

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To my knowledge, he never claimed to have taken the dogs out again that evening. It does seem quite early for a "last walk," especially for eight of them - can't imagine it would have been very practical to let 8 dogs out in a small garden for their last pee before bed-time.

He referred to them as "working dogs" so I'd assume they had to be kept active even when they weren't working.

When all the statements changed, GD couldn't remember if his dad was out with the dogs when he and JF got back from their moped shenanigans. The actual time they got back appears to be around 5.30pm - GD said he texted his girlfriend when he got in, to see if she was coming down later that evening - (the text was timed at 5.35, and we know the moped was still propped against the wall at 5.15) That's just half an hour before JF was supposed to return to JoJ's house to smoke cannabis with him, but somehow, he forgot to go.

JF claimed to have left either 9 or 9.30pm - he couldn't remember if DD was in the house or not when he (JF) left.

It's all very confusing.