Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055531 times)

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Offline marty

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Jodi set out to meet Luke after having her grounding lifted, it was only natural that when she didn't turn up that they search the shortest route between Easthouses and Newbattle.

What is revealing however is that the Mitchell's German Shepherd called Mia failed to scent Jodi on the first pass according to Luke Mitchell yet did so on the return journey with Alice, Janine and Stephen in tow.  Any dog handler will tell you that such a thing would never happen which only means one thing and that is that Luke Mitchell lied.  He knew exactly where Jodi lay but pretending to find her on his own would have attracted suspicion.

What a lot of crap

Offline marty

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Why didn't the defence call on a dog handler to prove a trained sniffer dog would walk past a dead body uncaring but react to it when passing it a second time?

Mia not alerting Luke to the body on the way there is a huge problem. In his 14 year old mind he thought being with the family as they discovered the body would make him look innocent (imo).

The dog wasn't looking for jodi on the way up the path. The dog was looking for jodi on the way down the path when it had been told to..
Do you think a dog reacts every time it recognises a scent, it may well have recognised the scent but as far as it was concerned it was out for a walk, nothing more.

Offline marty

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If "any dog handler will tell you" and it's important in showing Luke's guilt..... Did the prosecution call a dog handler to the stand to show this?

As far as I know, an expert was called in and he agreed that the dog was partially trained in tracking scents. The prosecution didn't use this, not surprised there. I am surprised that the defence never called this expert though, extremely surprised. I'm sure it was filmed as well.

Offline marty

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Why didn't the defence call on a dog handler to prove a trained sniffer dog would walk past a dead body uncaring

That's cadaver dogs that find blood and dead bodies. Not sniffer,trackers.

Offline marty

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Oh, so Mia couldn't have found Jodi?

Do I have to reply to that 😂😂😂

Offline marty

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Sandra, am I right about the dog expert. I'm not 100 percent exactly what happened.

Offline marty

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Did Mia have cadaver training?

cadaver scent is detectable for dogs within 2 hours of death.

I thought you just said a tracker (like Mia) wouldn't find blood or dead bodies?

As far as I am aware, mia, had tracker which is your own personal smell from clothes, nothing to do with blood.
So when she smelled anything on the way back down it would have been jodi personal smell from clothes.

Offline marty

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It goes against every dogs natural instinct to ignore the smell of blood on the way up the path. I've always owned dogs, if you ever walked a dog near where a dead animal lays, watch its reaction. Just try and get it to ignore it and keep walking. It would be easier to accept Mia ignoring this instinct if we weren't expected to believe the same scent drove her crazy and caused her to scrabble at the wall on the way back. I'd really like to hear a handler's opinion of this inconsistency/contradiction.

To me it leaves 2 options, none which look good for Mitchell.

1. Mia didn't detect the body the first time, so wouldn't have detected it on second passing - Luke lead her to the body.

2. Mia did find the body, so it's only logical she must also have alerted Luke to it upon first passing - Luke ignored this because discovering the body with the family looks less suspicious than discovering it alone and leading them to it.

A dog passing next to a dead animal is completely different. Who says the dog is smelling blood. Dogs are fascinated by other animals smells and add to that a lot of the time the dog thinks there's food there. Your right they refuse to leave it alone.
A dog out for a walk on the other side of a six foot wall, May have picked up on a smell it recognised, May not have. I doubt though it would try and leap the wall (for what reason)Then it's told to look for jodi, the dog has been trained so knows this command. It knows jodis smell so is then actively searching for her. It reacted on the way back down as confirmed by the search party (original statements). It's not the blood it smells its jodi and her clothes.
Who knows it may have smelt something and tugged on the lead on the way up the path, though , doubt it. Even if it did, there's a good chance it tugged half a dozen times between home and the path.

Offline marty

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Training aside, all dogs would follow the scent of blood. It's nature. My dog hasn't received any training and would sniff out a dead animal or butcher meat only meters away from where it was walking. (I apologise for these comparisons)

Was Mia given an item of Jodi's clothing to smell from one of the search party? I don't buy the "seek Jodi!" Lassie scenario that apparently resulted in a complete 360 of the dog's behaviour.

Or are you saying it was Jodi's clothing and not Jodi that Mia detected... because this was strewn all over.

Your dog would also do this with a packet of biscuits

Yes it would be jodis clothing the dog smells and her body which gives the clothes their smell.
I don't think mia was given an item of clothing as they didn't have anything of hers with them.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 03:25:PM by marty »

Offline marty

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Whether his lack of emotion changed their minds or not. They changed their statements from the truth to otherwise.

Offline marty

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Sorry, I give up.

The biscuits scenario is identical, it's food.
Don't think your reading the posts properly mate.
It's only my opinion of course, but it's a pretty educated one.

Your dog reacting in the park can also see as well as smell someone it knows.

Offline marty

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Who says their later statements weren't more accurate? Are you saying hindsight isn't a thing?

Their original statement simply outlined, without question, the dog scenario as it was presented to them by Luke. (if my opinion of his actions are true) Of course they believed that originally if it was Luke's intention to deliberately deceive them like this.

Is he a mind controller now as well.

Offline marty

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Nope dogs don't recognise appearances. Try tricking your dog if you have one by walking in your gate with a hood up, slowly, differently from your normal walk. They'll bark at you like a stranger.

Be sensible,did your friend have his face covered in the park.
I know my dogs can spot me a mile off. If you have your face covered you are trying to deceive them which would work for a few seconds that's all.

Offline marty

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No but if what I think is right, he successfully deceived them. His "find the body with the family and say it was the dog" plan worked initially.

He was fourteen, not Hannibal lecter

Offline marty

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No it's not a good point.

My dog would smell biscuits on the way up.

my dog would smell raw meat on the way up.

my dog would smell someone it knew on the way up.

my dog would smell blood on the way up.

You aren't refuting my argument at all lol.
That's pathetic and anyone reading this will realise it. I was enjoying a debate, but clearly your losing so reverting to games. I'm off for now.