Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055593 times)

0 Members and 36 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession

Pahahaha 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Maybe you should change your name from Marty to Peter Pan...  ::)
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline marty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
Bump

And? I'm not getting what your point is.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
No, I said on the wap forum, there new thread on the luke Mitchell case was a nonsense.

No you didn't! See below!

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,2787.msg314253.html#msg314253
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:19:PM by stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline marty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
Peter pan. I have the feeling you would fit right in

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
And? I'm not getting what your point is.

The reason you aren't getting the point is because you have no interest in the Luke Mitchell case. It appears you are merely here to have some fun.
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline marty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
Oh sorry your right, I'm not into vulgarity. I have just slapped my own hand sorry.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
Oh sorry your right, I'm not into vulgarity. I have just slapped my own hand sorry.

Can someone please ban this apparent troll. Ty
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline marty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
The reason you aren't getting the point is because you have no interest in the Luke Mitchell case. It appears you are merely here to have some fun.

I'm not interested in time wasters who call people this and that but are no better themselves.
Baz was right, don't feed the troll.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
Could it possibly be that failures like this are apparently not unusual in cases like these (i.e. people maintaining factual innocence) because they are recognised and acknowledged tactics in cases of "fitting up" innocent people, rather than conducting proper investigations? I wouldn't dream of asking you to take my word for it - try Prof Phil Scraton, Prof Allan Jamieson, Prof Derek Pounder, Prof Tim Valentine, Dr Keith Ashcroft, former head of Scotland Yard Roy Ramm - I could go on.... and on... but I'm sure you'll get the point I'm making here.

Why do you think it's wrong? Take this away from individuals - the question remains, are we prepared to accept this rubbish as  "investigation" from our police services, or as proof "beyond reasonable doubt" from our Criminal Justice System? You may well be, I most certainly am not.

The discussion just entered a logic-free zone. My ability or willingness to name the "real killer" (even if I could) has absolutely nothing to do with appallingly poor police and judicial processes (and media processes, just to be absolutely clear that they are all interlinked.)


My argument is not, and has never been, "It wasn't Luke who killed Jodi - I know this because it was X." Even if I had the photographs, accounts from witnesses who were standing there when the murder occurred, and a statement in blood from the real killer I STILL wouldn't name him publicly. Why? Because I still believe the proper processes of the CJS are the best protection for everyone, and the real killer would be entitled to the full process of the law, from the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, through the right to protection against prejudicial information being publicised which might jeopardise his right to a fair trial, all the way through to solid evidence, full disclosure to the defence, and juries properly advised and directed. Then, and only then, can we have some assurance that the correct person has been convicted.

And yes, I would argue - even campaign- that the identity of the real killer be kept out of the media prior to trial, even if I personally knew who he was (which I don't.) Because I would not want to see a real perpetrator of a horrible crime "get off" because the rights to which he, however horrible his crimes, was entitled, were breached - that just gets in the way of true justice. Afford him all of his rights, force the police and the courts to do a proper job, and maybe then we'll end up with much more satisfactory outcomes.

Sandra you say here (above) you don't know who killed JJ and you would never argue it was X - so can you explain your contradictions.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2010/06/20/mitchells-mum-points-finger-at-another-man-for-jodi-killing/

And Sandra Lean, author and researcher on miscarriages of justice, added: “Our Mr X is emerging as more and more misrepresentations

“The info that’s coming our way is shocking, especially as the police should have been onto this stuff right from the beginning.”


Another poster said: “Jodi wore a T-shirt which had DNA on it from X yet no other was found.

You can really only take one conclusion from that.”

Sandra Lean – who publically supports Mrs Mitchell is her quest to clear her son’s name – denied she was accusing the man of murder.

She said: “No-one is accusing anyone.

“There’s a danger in pointing the finger but in many ways he’s pointing the finger at himself

“Any line of enquiry that might establish who killed Jodi is worth pursuing.”
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 04:15:PM by stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline marty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 463
I have no interest in this case. That's why I read the entire 1000 page wap thread and this thread in its entirety and have been posting in both for a few years now.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
Sandra you say here (above) you don't know who killed JJ and you would never argue it was X - so can you explain your contradictions.

http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2010/06/20/mitchells-mum-points-finger-at-another-man-for-jodi-killing/

And Sandra Lean, author and researcher on miscarriages of justice, added: “Our Mr X is emerging as more and more suspicious.

“The info that’s coming our way is shocking, especially as the police should have been onto this stuff right from the beginning.”


Another poster said: “Jodi wore a T-shirt which had DNA on it from X yet no other was found.

You can really only take one conclusion from that.”

Sandra Lean – who publically supports Mrs Mitchell is her quest to clear her son’s name – denied she was accusing the man of murder.


She said: “No-one is accusing anyone.

“There’s a danger in pointing the finger but in many ways he’s pointing the finger at himself

“Any line of enquiry that might establish who killed Jodi is worth pursuing.”


And Sandra, can you see how you have used a double negative in your statement? Why do you do that?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 04:11:PM by stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
A double negative equals a positive or affirmative. So on the one hand you are saying one thing then in the same statement you are saying something else. Do you not see how your contradictions give people like me cause for concern?

You appear to do it an awful lot too.

Whilst I don't disagree with the fact you put up a good argument, seeing your arguments as a whole, rather than individually tells a whole other story imo, as though you are trying to convince yourself of something?

I get the impression not all that you post comes from genuine belief/factual evidence, more because you enjoy a good argument? Just a thought...
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 04:49:PM by stephanie »
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline Baz

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 136
And Sandra, can you see how you have used a double negative in your statement? Why do you do that?

Where's the double negative? Can't see it.

Offline Stephanie

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7614
  • The facts leading to the Simon Hall confession
Left largely to his own devices he became defiant, violent and brooding with an unhealthy fascination with knives, the occult and drugs. He was first brought to the attention of the mental health profession aged just 11, following a fight at King’s Park Primary in Dalkeith. Although the incident was just a minor skirmish with another pupil, Mitchell’s attitude was sufficiently troublesome to warrant a referral to a school psychiatrist. However, there appears to have been little further action taken by the education authorities or his parents to curb his behaviour.

When he was 12 he threatened his then girlfriend with a knife because she refused to have sex with him. The incidents went on. When he moved to St David’s High, a music teacher found him trying to throttle another pupil and he was sent to an educational psychologist. He refused the expert’s help. Instead Mitchell became a rebellious, mysterious teenager who was heavily into cannabis and supplied his Goth friends with the drug.

He also appeared to have an unhealthy interest in the occult. The jotters at his Catholic school were daubed with Satanic slogans, and he wrote a school essay containing references to the devil. Yet teachers appeared to have little control over him and he would simply defy their instructions when it suited him.

Even more worryingly, he also acquired a fascination with knives. His older brother, Shane, had a knife collection and Mitchell gathered his own array. At a party six weeks before killing Jones, he repeatedly jabbed her in the leg with a knife he had been using to cut up cannabis.

Although she was clearly devoted to Mitchell, Jones was not his only girlfriend. He had also been seeing at least two other girls and may even have been grooming them to see which would make the most suitable victim.

One of them was Kara van Nuil, now 17, who met him at army cadets in 2003. He wooed her with romantic text messages but their relationship ended abruptly after he followed her into the cadet hut one night, crept up on her, put his arm around her neck and placed a knife to her throat. Later he tried to laugh it off but van Nuil had been terrified. One month later he killed Jodi Jones.

Another of Mitchell’s girlfriends was 15-year-old Kimberley Thomson, from Kenmore, Perthshire who he had been seeing for about a year before the murder. They had met while he was on holiday and kept in touch. Her resemblance to Jones was uncanny.

Mitchell had arranged to go and stay with Thomson for a fortnight shortly after school broke up. At some point, he was going to have to break this news to Jones.

Dobbie said: "There is a potential Jodi found out about Luke’s planned holiday with Kimberley that Monday. I think he told her at lunchtime."

That conversation may have taken place at one of their favourite hideaways, an alcove off King’s Park, Dalkeith, known locally as the China Gardens. It was a place for teenagers to gather and smoke. They lit up a joint and sat alone until a friend joined them.

Dobbie added: "I am making an informed hypothesis about how Jodi may have known that day. That in itself would certainly have been a cause for her to want to see him that night."

Read more: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/natural-born-killer-1-1401861#ixzz3rOWawKQb
“The only people who are mad at you for telling the truth are those people who are living a lie. Keep telling the truth"

Offline sandra L

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 975
Quote
An example = "The downward-pointing pentacle is often used to represent Satanists."

But, it seems, this is a common misunderstanding:

Point up, or Point Down?
A “point down” pentacle is nothing new- nor is it necessarily Satanic when it appears as such. Historical depictions of the pentagram were as likely to be points down as point up. A distinction between one or the other was rarely made by the ancients. Even today, one must not assume a point down pentagram is Satanic, as it is just likely to be Masonic, Wiccan, or simply upside-down. Some inexperienced Wiccans will occasionally claim that a point down pentacle is Satanic, but such a symbol has at times represented the Wiccan horned God, and is still today an emblem of the Second Degree initiation in Gardnerian Wicca.

The Satanic Pentagram
In the minds of many, the pentagram is inextricably linked with black magick and Satan worship. The Satanic pentagram is a difficult symbol- it is the newest and least used, but at the same time the best known and most controversial. The Satanic pentacle is almost always presented upside down, or inverted, with a single point facing downward, and it is this pentacle that is presented incorrectly as ‘evil.
http://symboldictionary.net/?p=1893

Also, I know from experience that Luke often drew symbols over the seal on envelopes, so it would be easy for the recipient to see if the seal had been tampered with. His most often used symbol was the hand-written style anarch symbol, which could be literally any way up - upright, upside down, sideways, at a diagonal  in comparitson to the top of the envelope.

But all of that means diddly squat - there was no evidence of satanic or ritualistic elements in Jodi's murder - only the claims of the police and prosecution that it was so. It would be a bit too far to claim that an argument over another girlfriend (another police fantasy) somehow turned into a satanic ritualistic murder.