Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055506 times)

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Offline sandra L

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Dobbie (you may be right, not the house elf!) is on record as saying:

When the results came back (from the labs) there was not one DNA profile which could not be accounted for. Every profile belonged to people who knew Jodi, including Luke. However, what we didn’t have was DNA from someone unknown, which ruled out anyone unknown as the killer.

And Dobbie lied. If the above was true, why did the DNA results state "Jodi Jones and unknown male"? How did Falconer's DNA (recorded in the DNA results as "UNKNOWN MALE TWO) come to be finally identified three years later? Why were there no less than 10 references to "unknown male" in the DNA results? So Dobbie lied to the media.

But in the same article, he said police "did not want to arrest Luke until they were sure the circumstantial evidence as "correct." The correct circumstantial evidence was that they had unidentified male DNA at the murder scene which was not ruled out by the time of Luke's arrest or conviction and, apart from that one sample, remains unidentified to this day.

Offline Baz

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I remember reading this and it seems like further evidence of rewriting history. For starters, and I might be wrong, but there was none of Luke's DNA identified.

Was there any official investigation into the police's conduct after the trial?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 06:22:PM by Baz »

Offline marty

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Thanks for the refresher, it's amazing what you start to remember again about this vast case. I read the 1000 page thread but it's hard to remember everything.

Offline Baz

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Thanks for the refresher, it's amazing what you start to remember again about this vast case. I read the 1000 page thread but it's hard to remember everything.

It was years ago that I was first interested and I forgot it all but the broad strokes in that time. I'm slowly piecing it back together.

Offline marty

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It was years ago that I was first interested and I forgot it all but the broad strokes in that time. I'm slowly piecing it back together.

There's a lot to take in Baz, you need reminding of the facts now and again.

Offline Baz

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True.

Does Luke have any more appeals to pursue? Does he have an active campaign still going to free him?

Offline marty

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Yes, I believe they are still perusing areas, avenues.
Mojo have taken over the case from sandra and there is a fair bit still going on. I'm sure sandra said she hopes to be able to discuss some of it in the not to distant.
It must have been hard for everyone to pick themselves back up after the last submission.

Offline Baz

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Yes, I believe they are still perusing areas, avenues.
Mojo have taken over the case from sandra and there is a fair bit still going on. I'm sure sandra said she hopes to be able to discuss some of it in the not to distant.
It must have been hard for everyone to pick themselves back up after the last submission.

Well least I can hold on to the hope of something in the future giving us a definitive answer.

Offline sandra L

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Thanks for the refresher, it's amazing what you start to remember again about this vast case. I read the 1000 page thread but it's hard to remember everything.

All stored in my head - not sure if that's a blessing or a curse! As I said previously, I'm only commenting here as a member of the public - not in any "official" capacity - but I have this strange ability to remember dates, times, small details, etc, from stuff I've seen/studied, so a lot of what I'm able to post is based on that.

I do obviously have my notes, copies of "non official" data and so on, but by law, I was required to hand over everything "official" to the SCCRC, so no longer have access to that in its original form, if you know what I mean.

Future appeals, routes to remedy, avenues for further action are still very much available, although I will not be officially involved directly in any of them. Whatever updates I can make public, I will, although, as always, the over-riding concern is to not jeopardise any proceedings which may happen in the future for Luke or anyone else

Offline nugnug

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i forgot just how complicated this case was.

Offline Baz

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Can you explain how the parka has been proven false? Sandra doesn't know. The several witnesses who testified that he did own a parka prior to the murder actually knew Luke. It's far from proven false please don't post such misinformation.

I was only referring to the reason for suspecting Luke early being the parka seems to be false. Not the existence or ownership of the parka in general, that's something I haven't studied carefully.

Is that any better Lithium?

P.s. Love the new picture.

Offline sandra L

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Falconer's DNA has absolutely no connection to the murder scene and you know it, so I suggest you stop typing the poor guy's name on forums. And while we're on the subject - do you honestly believe if SK ejaculated at the scene there wouldn't be far more DNA than 'traces' of semen on a shirt? This is why it can safely be considered an innocent transfer, i.e. obviously not transferred at the scene - not relevant to the murder.

I'd like to make two points here. Firstly, the post was about the fact that Dobbie's claim of "no unknown DNA samples" was false. Secondly, no-one could have known until late 2006 more than 3 years after the murder whether or not Falconer's DNA was linked to the murder - another example of a shoddy investigation. (Please note, neither of these points casts any shadow of suspicion on Falconer.)

What I do have some difficulty with is Falconer's own account of what he was doing that night and first thing the following morning. He lied about where he got the condoms (remember this is more than 3 years later, and Luke's already been in prison nearly two of those, so Falconer was not in any real "trouble"). When asked why he lied (rather than, for example, the believable "I don't remember, it was years ago") he said "I had to say something." OK, I agree, not the end of the world, but why deliberately lie? But it's his account of his actions on June 30th which interest me most.

According to where he said he walked (which could be accepted as broadly correct given the original claim of the distance of the condom from the body) he could not possibly have failed to see Jodi's body, both on the way down, and on the way back. If he used the exact route he claims to have used, he would have had to literally step over her body. That tells us two things - either Falconer is lying, or Jodi's body was not there when Falconer was - and that means Jodi was not murdered at the spot behind the wall at 5.15pm. So which was it, and why, 12 years later, do we still not know the answers?

Lithium's argument here about Kelly's DNA is, of course Lithium's own opinion posted as fact. I have never, ever suggested that Kelly ejaculated at the scene, or have I ever seen anyone else make such a claim. However, it is not certain that, even if he had, there would have been "far more DNA than traces on a shirt." That's a whole other discussion which I don't have time to go into in detail this morning - I can come back to it later tomorrow if anyone wants to go through it.

But
Quote
This is why it can safely be considered an innocent transfer, i.e. obviously not transferred at the scene - not relevant to the murder.
Sorry, Lithium, but the prosecution's argument, that semen and sperm heads may have been transfered from one item of Jodi's clothing to another by rainwater diffusion at the scene would have to stand for any semen, sperm heads, or any other bodily fluid containing identifiable DNA profiles, regardless of how those fluids got there. Or it's dismissed as total nonsense, and the "innocent explanation" for the DNA on the shirt evaporates with the rainwater!

Offline Baz

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Lithium's argument here about Kelly's DNA is, of course Lithium's own opinion posted as fact. I have never, ever suggested that Kelly ejaculated at the scene, or have I ever seen anyone else make such a claim. However, it is not certain that, even if he had, there would have been "far more DNA than traces on a shirt." That's a whole other discussion which I don't have time to go into in detail this morning - I can come back to it later tomorrow if anyone wants to go through it.


I would like to understand the DNA found better, so please do.

I'll try and read up a bit first.

Offline Baz

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I've been trying cobble together a time line.

Disclaimers: this isn't all correct no doubt and is me trying to get information, not give it. So anyone reading it, read it with that in mind please. Secondly, this is clearly the prosecutions timeline (I even titled it!) only, and I'm aware a lot of this is questionable. This is more about what has to be believed as true for the jury to convict. Maybe I'll question it all next.

Prosecution Timeline:

4:50 Jodi leaves the house to meet Luke.

4:49 - 4:54 Adrina Bryson witnesses a couple at Jodi's end of the path.

5:00 John Farris and Gordon Dickie are on and around the path and the gap in the wall. They do not see Luke or Jodi.

5:40 Luke phones Jodi's home and discovers she has left.

5:40 - 5:55 Lorraine Fleming and Rosmary Walsh witness Luke hanging around near the path.

5:55 - 6pm A group of teenagers (Holbourn, Houston, Elliot) witness Luke on a road near the path entrance.

6:05 Carol Heattie witnesses Luke hanging around near a driveway.

6:32 Luke phones David High to meet up.

6:30 - 7:30 Mrs Frankland smells a fire.

7:05 Luke meets David High in the woods.

9:00 Franklands both smell a fire.

10:00 George Ramage smells a fire.

10:00 The Frankland neighbours see Luke.

10:40 Judith Jones texts Luke's phone.

11:00 Jodi's sister, her fiancé and grandmother set out searching for Jodi.

This is mostly from reading about the trial in various newspapers and reading here.

Questions I have:

Firstly, what did I miss or get wrong?

Secondly, I feel like I need to understand the geography of the area better.

So the path that this all centres around runs between where Luke and Jodi lived. How long a walk is it from Jodi's to the path and Luke's to the path? And roughly how long would it take one to walk the length of the path; I've seen statements of between 15-30 minutes.
What are the areas at each end called? I have Jodi's end as Newbattle in my head?

And then more specifics on the various witnesses.

Which end of the path were JF and GD seen? What were their journeys and times? When was his bike seen at the gap and how far down the path is the gap?

What time was Leonard Kelly cycling? Where and when was it he heard the noise?

Which end of path did LF and RW see Luke?

Which end of the path did Carol Heattie see Luke?

Where did the three teenagers see Luke?

I've read that at 4:15 Someone answered Luke's home phone. Why is this relevant?

Well I think that's enough!!







Offline nugnug

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JF probably is lying. I think it's safe to assume he was more than likely having sex in the woods with someone whose name he doesn't want to disclose (could be many reasons for this - cheating on a partner? a male? an underage girl? or for the same reason loads of people prefer to keep their sex life private.) If it was anything to do with Jodi, her DNA would surely be on the outside of the condom, but we already know she wasn't raped. Unless he randomly decided to murder a stranger and masturbate over what he had done. (While being cautious enough to use a condom to avoid leaving DNA - then daft enough to dump the condom nearby.)

its was crap lie considering he had 3 years to think it up.