Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055629 times)

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Lithium

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nugnug is hilarious

Offline nugnug

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thankyou

Offline beaufoy

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A final qute from the transcript of July 4th, which I find quite telling:

CM: Why was I not told at the house that the house was gonna be searched, why was it left til I was up here - that was a bit of a shock.

ADS: Well, we were provided with a warrant, do you just want to conclude this and then we'll answer

DC: aye

ADS: address any concerns Mrs Mitchell's got

DC: We'll do that, aye. Eh, we'll just, I'll switch the tapes off

ADS: So that's eh

DC: in case they stop again

ADS: 1652

DC: 1652. The time is 1652 ours on Friday the 4th of july, this is DC SQ concluding the interview with Lue Mitchell that took place in Dalkeith Police Station.

What' no answer on tape as to why they waited until they'd got Luke and Corinne out of the house and at the station bfore telling them it was going to be searched? No denial on tape that they'd done so?

The police quite often use eye eerr yea ect when they fill in the gaps after falsifying the interview tape

Offline nugnug

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it is very disturbing the way the police did that mind you no more than the rest of there behavior in the case.




Offline sandra L

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Thanks, nugnug and Oncesaid. It took more than 6 months to negotiate permission to release this footage - the first time footage of a lie detector test inside a UK prison has ever been allowed to be released.

As I've said so many times, we're not claiming that passing the polygraph is what proves Luke's innocence  - it merely backs up all of the other evidence that shows Luke did not commit, and could not have committed, this terrible murder.

And to all of those who say it's unreliable, and easy to beat, ask yourselves, why are probation services relying on it to decide whether sex offenders are safe to be released, or to remain at liberty after release? And why is it being trialled in poice investigations? Seems to me they want it both ways - it's "reliable" when it indicates guilt, but not when it indicates innocence.

Offline susan

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Morning sandraL  excellent post I share your sentiments with regard to the polygraph test.

guest154

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Thanks, nugnug and Oncesaid. It took more than 6 months to negotiate permission to release this footage - the first time footage of a lie detector test inside a UK prison has ever been allowed to be released.

As I've said so many times, we're not claiming that passing the polygraph is what proves Luke's innocence  - it merely backs up all of the other evidence that shows Luke did not commit, and could not have committed, this terrible murder.

And to all of those who say it's unreliable, and easy to beat, ask yourselves, why are probation services relying on it to decide whether sex offenders are safe to be released, or to remain at liberty after release? And why is it being trialled in poice investigations? Seems to me they want it both ways - it's "reliable" when it indicates guilt, but not when it indicates innocence.

Whether is is reliable or not isn't the question. The question is how do you expect a lie detector to help your case? Luke was convicted on evidence in court - it's that evidence you need to attack and until you do that in an open and honest way you can have a million lie detectors posted on the internet and nothing will happen.

I'll join others in smelling a rat as to how independant the 'expert' with the lie detector is.
"‘I’m certain of the test result. It’s absolute. I can’t believe Luke Mitchell was convicted on the evidence that was available.’"

But still there is a 4 percent chance (Higher or lower depending on who you ask) that the test is wrong, and when it is going up against a guy that murdered his girlfriend, lied about it and contiues to lie about it - you're not going up against the mind of a normal person.

but good luck, you've got yourself some publicity if nothing else.

Offline nugnug

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the expert was totaly independant he was hired by nationol newspaper as we have stated many times before.


Offline sandra L

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Mat said
Quote
Whether is is reliable or not isn't the question. The question is how do you expect a lie detector to help your case? Luke was convicted on evidence in court - it's that evidence you need to attack and until you do that in an open and honest way you can have a million lie detectors posted on the internet and nothing will happen.

I agree with most of what you say here, Mat - the lie detector test/result changes nothing in legal terms. But it doesn't mean nothing will happen - there are a number of factors involved in fighting wrongful convictions - just take a look at how many high profile Miscarriages of Justice took literally years to get the convictions overturned, often because the courts simply refused to allow the information, which would attack the prosecution evidence, to be heard. Maintaining a high public profile for cases claiming wrongful conviction, putting as much information as possible into the public domain, trying to build public support, etc, are all factors in the process.

I've had people contact me as a result of articles/forum discussions/documentaries, etc who have said, themselves, that had it not been for the fact of those public discussions, they would probably not have tried to do anything with the information they had. I've also had messages from fence-sitters (their own description), and even from those who have changed their opinion from guilt to innocence as a result of having had access to more information. So it's not entirely accurate to say "nothing" will happen.

Attacking the evidence in an open and honest way is what I have been trying to do, against some particularly difficult obstacles, for almost 10 years. In Scotland, it is an offence to post many of the documents I have had access to - the most I can do is quote from them (and even that can be risky). It does, of course, leave me open to accusations that people are just having to "take my word for it" - there's not a great deal I can do about that. But I have called the SIO a liar, publicly, several times, and demonstrated from his own statements exactly how and why he is a liar. I have quoted directly from statements, pointing out many, many anomalies in accounts - none of those whose statements I have quoted have ever stated that what I have quoted is untrue, etc, etc.

Luke, and others like him, are where they are because other people were dishonest. It would serve no-one if people like me tried to fight that dishonesty with further dishonesty - it would be stupid and pointless. Although some people might find it hard to believe, I do, actually, have a real life, and I wouldn't waste a minute of it (a) fighting for someone I thought might be guilty, or (b) undermining my own hard work by making public information I knew to be untrue.

Is there any evidence you believe I have not attacked in an open and honest way? I'll do my best, within the restrictions I face, to address this, if you can give me concrete examples.

guest154

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the expert was totaly independant he was hired by nationol newspaper as we have stated many times before.

We?

Mat said
I agree with most of what you say here, Mat - the lie detector test/result changes nothing in legal terms. But it doesn't mean nothing will happen - there are a number of factors involved in fighting wrongful convictions - just take a look at how many high profile Miscarriages of Justice took literally years to get the convictions overturned, often because the courts simply refused to allow the information, which would attack the prosecution evidence, to be heard. Maintaining a high public profile for cases claiming wrongful conviction, putting as much information as possible into the public domain, trying to build public support, etc, are all factors in the process.

I've had people contact me as a result of articles/forum discussions/documentaries, etc who have said, themselves, that had it not been for the fact of those public discussions, they would probably not have tried to do anything with the information they had. I've also had messages from fence-sitters (their own description), and even from those who have changed their opinion from guilt to innocence as a result of having had access to more information. So it's not entirely accurate to say "nothing" will happen.

Attacking the evidence in an open and honest way is what I have been trying to do, against some particularly difficult obstacles, for almost 10 years. In Scotland, it is an offence to post many of the documents I have had access to - the most I can do is quote from them (and even that can be risky). It does, of course, leave me open to accusations that people are just having to "take my word for it" - there's not a great deal I can do about that. But I have called the SIO a liar, publicly, several times, and demonstrated from his own statements exactly how and why he is a liar. I have quoted directly from statements, pointing out many, many anomalies in accounts - none of those whose statements I have quoted have ever stated that what I have quoted is untrue, etc, etc.

Luke, and others like him, are where they are because other people were dishonest. It would serve no-one if people like me tried to fight that dishonesty with further dishonesty - it would be stupid and pointless. Although some people might find it hard to believe, I do, actually, have a real life, and I wouldn't waste a minute of it (a) fighting for someone I thought might be guilty, or (b) undermining my own hard work by making public information I knew to be untrue.

Is there any evidence you believe I have not attacked in an open and honest way? I'll do my best, within the restrictions I face, to address this, if you can give me concrete examples.

Thanks for the reply. Glad we actually agree on some points.  I don't particularly find MOJ websites always open and honest or the best source to get information from, I find them biased - the Luke Mitchell website is no different, nor the Bamber, Hall etc.

I beleive the LM case to be crucial for you, Sandra. After the AP case I don't tihnk that you can afford another MOJ that turns out to be actually guilty so I respect that you're going to great means to prove LM's innocence, I just don't agree with your opinion.

Offline nugnug

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why would they lie you cant lie somebody out of prison.