Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 730362 times)

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Online nugnug

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it will say so on the pic if you click on it.

Offline OnceSaid

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nugnug, shoulder length hair is any hair that reaches the shoulder. Google "Male shoulder length hair" it will give you these pics:













OnceSaid I find it funny you want to know if that's a male or not, another potential suspect i take it?  ::)

Very funny, not.  :P  I don't mean to be insulting to whoever it is, but I wasn't sure if this was a male or female. 

Offline OnceSaid

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yes but the witness wernt men so they know perfectly well what shoulder length meant.

Fair comment.

Offline sandra L

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AB said in her statements she could only identify the youth again from his clothing, because she didn't see his face. She was shown photos of clothing, and the jacket and trousers she picked out were not the same as the ones she'd seen the youth wearing - she stated in court they were "the nearest from the pictures I was shown," pointing out that she had told the policemen that at the time.

She said initially the youth had thick, messy hair, sticking up in a clump at the back. She couldn't tell what length it was, because the collar of the jacket was up at the back.

So how did she identify Luke from that picture? His hair was different (and she didn't know what length the youth's hair was anyway), the clothes in the picture were different - vastly different- from what she'd described, and the age was wrong - she'd described a youth "late teens to early 20s"

F&W did not "both see him through the front windscreen according to their statements. One saw him side on, looking at the pavement, through the front windscreen. The other was driving past, level with him, when her attention was apparently drawn to him, she saw him for a fleeting second through the passenger window, and then in the rear-view as she was driving away. Both initially described him as having dark hair. Both said they did not see his face (although one changed this in court to say he had flicked his hair off his face, and she had a leeting glimpse of the side of his face, and one eye. One said she could only recognise him again through his clothing. Luke Mitchell was wearing a suit in court - how could someone who had not seen his face, and described very different clothes (which also changed over time) describe someone in a suit as the same person?

Both said in court the attention of the driver had been drawn to him by the passenger saying he looked as if he'd been "up to no good." Neither one ever said those words, in any statement, prior to trial. The second to give evidence was not allowed in court when the first was giving her evidence, so how did she come to use exactly the same phrase, which neither had ever used before, unless they were discussing their evidence?

MK was not "checked out" by the police at the time - they didn't even trace him until three years later. He was not "miles away" at the time, he was living at Newbattle Abbey college, and, by his own account, he was in Newbattle that evening. His claim to be in Haddows at 10pm in no way pinpoints where he was at 5.15pm that evening.

Luke phoning the speaking clock - the mobile records show a large number of calls to the speaking clock. I have never claimed he made these calls from any particular place, as I simply don't know. However, the ones prior to 8.30am on schooldays would, presumably, have to be made from home, as he didn't leave for school until 8.30am. The ones between 4.15pm and 5pm are less certain, but, as his habit was to return from school and cook the dinner for his mum coming in, it seems likely that these were made from the house as well. There are a number of witnesses who attested to the fact that Luke cooked the dinner most nights, not just Corinne and Shane.

Offline sandra L

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Two independent witnesses, one who knew Jodi, described a stocky man following her down the main Easthouses Road just after 5pm on June 30th. Police appealed for him to come forward. A week later, at the reconstruction, one of the witnesses thought he saw the man again, hi-fiving one of his mates.

The man "identified" came forward very quickly- he had literally just returned to the area that day. He was checked out, and his whereabouts at the time of the murder verified, so he was ruled out. Which left "Stocky Man" still unaccounted for.

To this day, he has never been traced. Both witnesses described him as following "closely" behind Jodi. Nobody's saying he's a murderer - he might have seen something or someone, but, as he never came forward, we'll probably never know. And, since he's never been traced, and none of the witnesses saw where he went, no-one can possibly say "He didn't turn onto the path, he went straight past it," unless, of course, they are stocky man, or they know him!

It is absolutely impossible to keep up with this rate of misinformation correction, and, frankly, having done it before on WAP, I'm not prepared to do it again. Any readers who would like to see the alternative to what Lithium and Buffalo Bill have posted, can check out WAP. At least our inormation comes from official papers, not local gossip and tabloids.


Offline sandra L

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Just before I go,
Quote
Yet  Luke said he took 6 steps to the left and saw feet, and after another step recognised it as Jodi's body.

Luke, Steven Kelly, Alice Walker and 4 police officers all described exactly the same route they took to get to the body from the V. That is exactly the same - so were they all lying?

Kelly recognised the body as Jodi from approximately one pace closer than Luke.

Online nugnug

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what hasnt been mentioned is the other 2 witness who also saw the youth flemming and saw and said it defantly was not luke.
what were there names agian sandra do you know i will go and find them.

Offline OnceSaid

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It is absolutely impossible to keep up with this rate of misinformation correction, and, frankly, having done it before on WAP, I'm not prepared to do it again. Any readers who would like to see the alternative to what Lithium and Buffalo Bill have posted, can check out WAP. At least our inormation comes from official papers, not local gossip and tabloids.


These people have little else to do, so they copy and paste from the DR comments page etc and pass it off as fact.  They obviously have no interest on reading the information provided from official documentation.  By targetting this thread, what they have done is make people question why inaccurate information and miselading information is being posted by them.

If they were convinced that the right person was in prison, why would anyone come onto fourms to try and convince people that he is guilty, when he was found guilty years ago?  It makes no sense.  I genuinely believe that they are not convinced that the right person is in prison, or they know for a fact that the right person is not in prison.

Online nugnug

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well they cant be or they wouldn't bother.

Offline gordo30

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It is absolutely impossible to keep up with this rate of misinformation correction, and, frankly, having done it before on WAP, I'm not prepared to do it again. Any readers who would like to see the alternative to what Lithium and Buffalo Bill have posted, can check out WAP. At least our inormation comes from official papers, not local gossip and tabloids.


These people have little else to do, so they copy and paste from the DR comments page etc and pass it off as fact.  They obviously have no interest on reading the information provided from official documentation.  By targetting this thread, what they have done is make people question why inaccurate information and miselading information is being posted by them.

If they were convinced that the right person was in prison, why would anyone come onto fourms to try and convince people that he is guilty, when he was found guilty years ago?  It makes no sense.  I genuinely believe that they are not convinced that the right person is in prison, or they know for a fact that the right person is not in prison.


I understand what your saying here m8 but I do feel that there are genuine people out there who believe Luke is guilty, they use sites like this to try and understand why others feel he is innocent. I welcome their discussion and input as I also wonder why they feel he is guilty. I think your bang on about those who decide to argue their point based on innaccuracies as we spend a lot of time correcting them only to be accused of selectively doing so.

The problem I also have is this reasoning about us not having a thread of evidence for his innocence, there is nothing for his guilt either, thats not me saying this its the judge. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence alone and as the judge said that anyone piece of it could not have convicted him but together their weight gave the jury enough to decide on, that jury couldn't decide on it as some found him innocent.

The innacuracies is so numerous that the case becomes unrecognisable i. we have
Chinese garden being a local take away= when it was a secluded area that the kids used.

Shane had dinner with his mother= when it has always been stated by everyone that he took his upstairs,Corrine went outside and Luke was in the living room.

Luke left the house at 5:45= Luke always said he left the house just after dinner and slightly after Shane did He put that at around 5:30.

The calls from Luke to Jodi's house were witnessed by Corrine= When Luke always maintained that he made the 1st call when he left the house and the second as he walked up Newbattle road. Corrine has never claimed that she saw him make these calls.

And he didnt go down the path he walked right past it != Im really starting to worry about this bit of info as it has always been acknowledged that stocky man was never traced and if someone is withholding info then that becomes serious. I think that because of the matter of fact way it was stated.

 and after another step recognised it as Jodi's body. = He never maintained it was Jodi just that it looked like a mannequin.

Thats just a few but when people are arguing their point based on them its easy to see why they may feel he is guilty, shame really.

Online nugnug

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and also the fact that somone from the area should know exactly what the Chinese garden was.

Offline OnceSaid

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I understand what your saying here m8 but I do feel that there are genuine people out there who believe Luke is guilty, they use sites like this to try and understand why others feel he is innocent. But why do they come to a Jeremy Bamber forum, or quote from the Daily Record comments page?  Why not go to Luke Mitchells official site, do the research then fire away with questions?  There have been links continually posted linking them to the wap forum, for people to read but yet they don't seem to take any notice of them.  It is very frustrating indeed.  I don't expect everyone to think that Luke is innocent, but I do expect people to read up on the facts first, its the least they could do.    I welcome their discussion and input as I also wonder why they feel he is guilty. I also welcome discussion from people who believe he is guilty as I too wonder why they feel this way, but on this thread firstly there was Lamberton posting just for the sake of it, as he does, then there are others who have posted as if they are experts on the case, when they haven't even done their research.  I think your bang on about those who decide to argue their point based on innaccuracies as we spend a lot of time correcting them only to be accused of selectively doing so. There is a misinformation thread on the wap forum and quite frankly Sandra Lean could be in their 24/7 if she had to correct all the misinformation that is posted elsewhere on forums and the tabloids.  I just cant understand for the life of me, why people cant look at the facts of the case, then make their minds up.  Peoples minds seem to be closed that he could potentially be innocent of the murder of Jodi Jones.

The problem I also have is this reasoning about us not having a thread of evidence for his innocence, there is nothing for his guilt either, thats not me saying this its the judge. He was convicted on circumstantial evidence alone and as the judge said that anyone piece of it could not have convicted him but together their weight gave the jury enough to decide on, that jury couldn't decide on it as some found him innocent. It is only by a stroke of luck or a stroke of genuis whichever way one looks at it, that certain other individuals are not sitting where Luke Mitchell is right now, IMO.

The innacuracies is so numerous that the case becomes unrecognisable i. we have
Chinese garden being a local take away= when it was a secluded area that the kids used.

Shane had dinner with his mother= when it has always been stated by everyone that he took his upstairs,Corrine went outside and Luke was in the living room.

Luke left the house at 5:45= Luke always said he left the house just after dinner and slightly after Shane did He put that at around 5:30.

The calls from Luke to Jodi's house were witnessed by Corrine= When Luke always maintained that he made the 1st call when he left the house and the second as he walked up Newbattle road. Corrine has never claimed that she saw him make these calls.

And he didnt go down the path he walked right past it != Im really starting to worry about this bit of info as it has always been acknowledged that stocky man was never traced and if someone is withholding info then that becomes serious. I think that because of the matter of fact way it was stated.

 and after another step recognised it as Jodi's body. = He never maintained it was Jodi just that it looked like a mannequin.

Thats just a few but when people are arguing their point based on them its easy to see why they may feel he is guilty, shame really.
All these innacuracies that you have written in bold, I have read before.  The information was being posted by a very aggressive contributer.  I will try and find the link, especially what they had to say about stocky man.

Online nugnug

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i think theres a fair few people who are really desprate for this conviction not to be overturned.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 06:42:PM by nugnug »

Online nugnug

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i think you have just proved my point.

Online nugnug

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"the person the eye witnesses saw couldnt have been luke, their description didn't match Luke at all!"

"The person the eye witnesses saw may have been Mark Kane, he bears a striking resemblance to Luke!"

 ::)

Which one is it?

i dont im nothing to do with appeal i dont even know what mark kane looks like.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 10:44:PM by nugnug »