The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003

[grahameb]

Chelsea a.k.a Guest #6 currently viewing, sullied a once interesting thread. Mods please obliterate the 2-4 previous pages.

I've come across that before. It is not what you think When I was admin I saw the same anomaly on my own name. I also for some reason was shown as guest as well. I asked hartley abvout it when he was in one of his more amiable moods and he said it was something to do with the software.

[gordo30]

The way it read it seemed like you were stating it as fact.

If you could now that you have a better understanding of what happened how do you feel about some of the issues raised?

The lack of DNA.

The lack of blood.

A  plausible motive (if you don't think the prosecutions fits)

The timescale in order to carry out the crime and be seen depending on what you believe be either F&W at 5:42 or the young lads just before 6pm.

Why was he never seen at the crime scene although its certain others were there at the time of the murder.

How do you feel about the way the case was investigated and how much of the prosecutions case to think fits in with the crime?

[gordo30]

What you have a done is accuse me of the same thing you have done just now, how would you know where I learned this case from. I was interested in this case prior to the WAP being set up, and I only knew about F&M site through the WAP site. I was a regular visitor to the area and had an understanding of the charecters in the case long before I started any discussion. Your everything and anything comment is way off the mark.

I'm sure you're referring to the one friend who said Jodi told her she was having a thing with S Kelly.

Don't try and put words in my mouth as I did not mention any particular scenario and was generalising.

[Margot]

From what I have read so far, it sounds as if the police really botched this case up.
They would be desperate to get a conviction because this was such a horrendous murder of a young girl.

In some ways this case reminds me of Stephen Downing's miscarriage of justice case. He was a gardener I believe when he came across the body of the victim.  This case too had many suspects not investigated at the time and the police did not do their job properly either.

[nugnug]

your makeing this up as you go along arnt you.

[gordo30]

The other suspects that were witnessed at the time hadn't been followed up so if they had then the no blood agrument would indeed rule them out. The motive would be personal to the killer so this point again could only have been established had the police followed up other possible suspects. They did follow up with Luke and could put no realistic motive in place for him as a killer.

The timescale is very easy as we have the sighting or the established leaving time of Jodi and the 1st known sighting of Luke either at 5:42 or 6pm depending on what you believe. Thats a timescale of between 45 mins between Jodi being alive and Luke being sighted.

[gordo30]

Can you blame them when their only suspect at the time was telling interviewing officers to go home and listen to this song - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcUgsvpchms

Is it possible that you could link me to this or at the very least corroborate it?

[gordo30]

So you think it wasn't Luke because the murderer would need longer than 45 minutes? Really? This murder could have been carried out in 10. And if other people 'were witnessed' at the scene, it's safe to say they weren't witnessed covered in blood. I appreciate the sensible response and discussion though gordo thanks.

Then how was it done. The two people witnessed on the path were not witnessed after the murder as only the bike was seen propped up against the V. The idea that the murderer would not have had blood on them is only relevant if the murderer was seen, Im not saying that anyone seen without blood on them was not the murderer but as you state we can't have it both ways so that has to exclude Luke also.

This idea that you could have done this in 10 mins is a rediculous thing to say. I'm talking about everything here not just the murder itself. It takes slightly more than the 10 mins for Luke to get to the V.

[nugnug]

Then how was it done. The two people witnessed on the path were not witnessed after the murder as only the bike was seen propped up against the V. The idea that the murderer would not have had blood on them is only relevant if the murderer was seen, Im not saying that anyone seen without blood on them was not the murderer but as you state we can't have it both ways so that has to exclude Luke also.

This idea that you could have done this in 10 mins is a rediculous thing to say. I'm talking about everythigng here not just the murder itself. It takes slightly more than the 10 mins for Luke to get to the V.

there is also the fact of how does he manage to clean his own dna off and leave other peoples on there
when he was examined his hair was unwashed and his fingernails were dirty so he clearly hadent cleaned himself up.

[gordo30]

Do I think he spent more time on the murder? well as I don't believe he did the murder this would all be supposition.
The murderer would have to have met Jodi at some point, we know that a struggle took place(this from expert testimony) the amount of time spent on the struggle could vary dramaticly but I feel about 2-3 mins, he then proceeds to murder her. The throat being slashed around 12-20 times shows a great deal of precision in that he has to avoid himself with the knive and whilst in a frenzied state that becomes more difficult. he then moves the body from where the throat was cut to where the body was discovered and all done so by himself I might add(still not getting blood on himself) a distance if my memory is correct of about 14 feet. He then has to decloth her by cuting the t-shirt and romoving the jeans. Then attempt to tie her up with the jeans by twisting them and securing one hand, doing this to someone who didn't want to be tied would take a while but to a body that is limp is very time consuming. He then has to cut the eyelids very precise and complete other things like repositioning the socks.In all this time he has people in the area and without wanting to draw attention to himslef.

I take it you still think he can complete this in 10 mins?

[nugnug]

then of course he has to go home get clean and get out to stand at the corner of his street to be seen by 3 schoolboy cyclists.

[gordo30]

There are aspects like the post mortem cuts that were carried out. Its crazy to think these were done in a frenzied manner simply to hurry up and leave the crime scene, these were done specifically and done with thought, they were done for a reason and it took time to carry these out. This murderer was not in a hurry but was content at what he had done.

The cleaning up of course never happened nugnug as it is the last thing that anyone could fit into this timescale, as well of course as making 2 phone calls inbetween to Jodi's house in a manner that did not arouse suspicion from AO.

[nugnug]

oh yes he appears to super boy according to the police and prosecution

hes got to overpower jodi he was by the way biggir than him then strip her tie her up kill her mutliate the body then make phone calls then get back without being spotted then clean himself up in what is a very short period of time..

[guest154]

oh yes he appears to super boy according to the police and prosecution

hes got to overpower jodi he was by the way biggir than him then strip her tie her up kill her mutliate the body then make phone calls then get back without being spotted then clean himself up in what is a very short period of time..

Did he get back without being spotted though?

Gordo, Lithium, nugnug - glad that this topic has got back to what it was

[grahameb]

You seem disappointed that Sandra has vanished Mat. Yet the whole time she was on here you were arguing with Grahame like a couple of old woman. I wanted to ask her some questions too, but darent as you two were squabbling

Hey careful with the old.