Author Topic: The murder of 14 year-old schoolgirl Jodi Jones near Edinburgh on 30 June 2003  (Read 1055641 times)

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Offline gordo30

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Again I'll ask was he injured or masturbating... doubtful he'd be going through both at once, and did he arrive at the search wounded? Jodis sis was with him all day and never noticed he was hurt either?

and again why such an insignificant amount of blood? it's only common sense that these tiny amounts of DNA never got there at the scene of the murder.

It beyond debate now as I could have no knowledge of him either masterbating or being injured at any point as if I did the Luke would be home where he belongs. I agree however about the not doing them both at once but then again it is very selective in that your saying it couldn't happen. It is possible that sex in a woodland may well be the precurser to both.
There you go again mate!!! do you have some information you really should pass on as you seem to know much thatwe don't, He was with Janine all day you say!!! strange as thats not what he said. here are major times throughout the day that he wasn't with Janine as well as conflicting reports and statement from the family that say that Janine was in the house and he was not.

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and again why such an insignificant amount of blood?

And once again please do not keep trying to add information you cannot know as it does little to prove your point and even less for your crediblity.

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How can you defend a convicted murderer without even having any proof that he's innocent. Just because you reckon he is?

Isn't this the forfront of every idea that manifest's itself in greatness!! I believe because I can and therefore it becomes real to me. There is NO evidence of Lukes guilt so why the double edged sword.

Offline gordo30

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I don't believe the sample is confirmed to be SK. Can you provide proof please? Or is Sandra putting it out there when it's just a case of it 'could be'?

What is it that makes you not believe? Its there in black and white on an official site. If that information is incorrect and DR Lean has lied then they may as well keep Luke locked up for the next 11 years with my blessing.
It comes from the forensic files and have I any proof? no sorry I am not privy to these documents. If that suggests I am an idiot for believing blindly then so be it but It says as much for those willing to accept the acknowledged line without standing up and say HEY!! you know that just might be wrong.

Offline sandra L

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There were several areas on the T shirt which tested positive for the presence of semen. Many of these  contained sperm heads. The one found on the back underside of the left sleeve was noted as a "large stain" which suggests that it was visible. I will be out all day, but will look out the DNA reports this evening and confirm the actual number of areas.

There were several white stains on the hoodie which were visible to the naked eye - what they consist of has never been ascertained. There was an "extensive" area of blood-staining around the underarm of the left sleeve of the hoodie - there is no wound on Jodi's body which corresponds to that staining.

Jodi's T shirt was not taken off "over her head" - it was cut and ripped up the sides, across one side of the back, and through the neckline. The sleeves remained attached to the front piece.

The semen on the bra was found on the outside of the right and left cups, and in the padding of the left cup. The "transfer" theory does not explain how semen and sperm heads soaked through the surface of the bra into the padding below. The rainwater transfer (which was the prosecution's contention- the rain had diluted the semen on the t shirt, soaking it through to the bra, and also to other areas of the t-shirt) does not hold when one realises that after the clothes were stripped off, they were not thrown/dropped in the same place -the bra, cut bra strap, and two t-shirt parts were all found in different places. It did not rain that evening until after Jodi was claimed to have been murdered, stripped and mutilated, so any rain water transfer could only have happened after the clothes were removed from the body.

Also, Jodi left home wearing a hoodie, but there is no corresponding "transfer" of semen from the T-shirt to the inside of the hoodie, which would have been at least as likely as transfer to the bra. In an attempt to explain this away, the police began to question people about whether Jodi wore her hoodie tied around her waist. Not one person could be found who had ever known Jodi to wear her hoodie like that, so that line of enquiry was dropped.

Several of the mixed male and female profiles returned either "no reportable result" or "Jodi Jones and unidentified male" - the manner in which the DNA results were labelled and logged was confusing, at best, and downright misleading at worst. For example, (and this is just one of many), one label logged a sample found on one of the trainers as "no semen detected." The results, however,  show an unknown profile, in semen, from the same sample on the same trainer.

I cannot post copies of the DNA results online, as that would be an offence in Scotland. I have explained this many times - I have posted information from the results, as it appears in the reports, but that is as far as I can go. The labels I have posted are the exact wordings which appear on the results - I am not responsible for how those labels were worded, although some people seem quite keen to shoot the messenger!

As someone else has pointed out, the stories about the whereabouts of the sister's boyfriend changed to provide him with what appeared to be a watertight alibi - however, other statements raise doubts about where he was and who he was with. He finally claimed to be with the sister at his father's house - to date, I have never seen a statement from the father to confirm this. Initially, he said he visited the sister in the morning, stayed for a short time, and then left. By the final statement, he visited the sister in the morning, stayed all day, went with her to his father's and returned with her to the grandmother's.

Whilst I accept that people in shock may not remember important details, that should apply across the board - this discrepancy did not warrant further investigation (nor did a "mistaken" statement by the mother's boyfriend that the sister had actually been in the mother's house at the time she was claimed to be elsewhere with her boyfriend). Yet any tiny discrepancies in the Mitchell family statements were jumped on as "suspicious" and "deliberate falsehoods."

Interestingly, other people in the grandmother's house that morning do not mention him being there. None of this, of course, tells us that the boyfriend was in any way implicated. What it does tell us (and what I have been banging on about for over 9 years) is that the investigation was an absolute disgrace. If it had been done properly, we would not be having these discussions all these years later, because the questions would have been answered satisfactorily, and we could all be certain that the convicted person, whoever he had turned out to be as a result of a properly conducted, thorough and professional investigation, was the real killer.

As it stands, there are so many unanswered questions, so many inexplicable omissions, apparent errors, failures to follow through, etc, that no-one can rest easy that the conviction of Luke Mitchell is "safe" - far from it.

Lithium's attempts to provide innocent explanations for the sister's boyfriend's DNA on the T shirt Jodi was wearing demonstrate my point. Had that presence been fully investigated and properly eliminated, Lithium would have no need to argue the point (just as others would have no need to argue that the presence of his DNA raises many questions). It was not properly eliminated - the police appear to have handed them the "borrowed t shirt" explanation, the other samples on the t shirt remain unidentified, the rainwater transfer theory does not hold, and there is no proof, aside from the word of Jodi's sister, that two identical t shirts ever belonged to the sister. Six black t-shirts were recovered from Jodi's clothing - it is entirely possible that Jodi owned a black t-shirt identical to one owned by her sister.

Just to answer Lithium's question about confirmation, the sample is confirmed as a full match to SK. I have always been careful to point out that partial samples cannot be safely attributed to anyone, and would never claim that a partial "could be" any one person - the furthest I would go is to say it could be any one of several potential contributors. As a general rule, I avoid such discussion, as it is pointless, and dangerous.

As I have explained, I cannot provide the sort of proof Lithium would like, as to do so, I would have to reproduce the result from the DNA report, which I am prohibited from doing in Scotland.

Offline sandra L

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Lithium said
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such as Jodi's cousin being due a haircut that week.

Really, Lithium? Gosh, what a strange thing, then, that he cut off his own hair, knowing  he was "due a haircut" at the barbers the following day?

Funny old thing, though, he must have forgotten to mention this "due" haircut to the police in his statements... or to anyone else, for that matter. Why would anyone who was "due" a haircut (makes it sound like a regular arrangement, doesn't it?) suddenly chop off his own hair, and not be able to offer any explanation as to why?

I don't know where you got this piece of information, Lithium, but it was never offered as an explanation by the person concerned, and makes the cutting off of his own hair prior to such an arrangement even more strange.

He took five days to come forward, knowing he had been on the very path where Jodi was believed to have been, at the very time she was believed to have been murdered, during those five days, he first cut off all his own hair, then went to the barbers to get it sorted properly, only came forward after an appeal for the two boys on the moped (with descriptions) left him "shaking," then lied about the time he was on the path.

Asked why he hadn't come forward sooner (remember, this is the victim's cousin we are talking about - he was living with her grandmother and sister at the time of the murder), he said his grandmother had told him not to, as the time he was on the path was wrong. Yet the times given for Jodi leaving changed a number of times in those first days, so no-one could have known what was a "right" or "wrong" time - even if, as he claimed, the grandmother thought it was "too early" (because he apparently lied to her about the time as well), it was still only 20 - 35 minutes before the time Jodi was (eventually) claimed to have walked down the path - he could well have seen someone lurking about in the area.

We don't know if the grandmother told him not to come forward - we only have his word that she did. It does seem like a very strange thing to say, but there are no statements which show the grandmother being asked about it, and certainly none in which she confirms or denies such a conversation. Having said that, though, it was quite a while before anyone in the family "remembered" that the cousin was living with the grandmother, having fallen out with his mother.

Offline grahameb

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You really are a nasty old man that shouldn't be on the forum never mind the internet. Your hidden barbs expose you as nothing more than the tyro, trol and backseat moderator that you yourself aim to expose.

Outside your small group of friends, you're pittied, Grahame.
Your name calling doesn't really have any affect upon me. I am ready to accept that I am a nasty old man, a tyro and a backseat moderator. As being moderator for quite some time does take some time to get out of. Being called those names doesn't bother me. Because it is better than being seen as the forum parrot. ::)

Offline grahameb

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doesn't it tell you anything when Jodi's family and sister (stevens boyfriend) aren't concerned about his DNA on there? and they obviously know more about the circumstances than us. The recurring argument is that other suspects have more evidence against them than Luke does, when its clutching at straws, such as Jodi's cousin being due a haircut that week. Luke was spotted in the right place at the right time. He had no alibi. A jacket and a knife dissapeared. This is the evidence I'm looking at.
You don't have to convince me mate. I'm neutral on this one in that I haven't really read up on it. Believe it or not I don't believe that everyone in prison for murder is a moj.
I was only questioning the logic of defending a man ie Kelly, fishing out every reason to explain why his dna was there at a murder scene, when he wasn't even in the frame anyway?


Offline maggie

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Your name calling doesn't really have any affect upon me. I am ready to accept that I am a nasty old man, a tyro and a backseat moderator. As being moderator for quite some time does take some time to get out of. Being called those names doesn't bother me. Because it is better than being seen as the forum parrot. ::)
Hi Grahame, I really have issues with Matt calling you  the 'old' word.......totally out of order ;D :o ;D

Offline grahameb

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How can you defend a convicted murderer without even having any proof that he's innocent. Just because you reckon he is?
Are you referring to Dr Sandra Lean? Don't you think it would be a good thing to refer to her by the title that she has earned rather than just her Christian name? After all this would indicate that we have some respect for her achievements. Unless you are of course an expert in criminalogy?

Offline susan

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Morning Maggie I found the way Mat used the "old" very disrespectful infact if a person is getting on in years which Grahame is not I still don't like the label OLD.

Offline grahameb

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Hi Grahame, I really have issues with Matt calling you  the 'old' word.......totally out of order ;D :o ;D
Don't worry about it Maggie. I am old. Well because of my illness I feel old anyway. ;D
What I am concerned about is that young people today think they have some right to be young and fit. I just hope Mat doesn't suffer like my daughter has. She is near enough the same age as he but is sick and infirm. I really hope he stays young and healthy. I wouldn't wish such things as she is going through on anyone least of all Mat.

Offline grahameb

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Morning Maggie I found the way Mat used the "old" very disrespectful infact if a person is getting on in years which Grahame is not I still don't like the label OLD.
I really don't mind Susan. Age brings wisdom and grey hairs buy respect. Believe me he would not call me that to my face. People become very dold when hiding behind an internet profile. ;)

Offline maggie

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Don't worry about it Maggie. I am old. Well because of my illness I feel old anyway. ;D
What I am concerned about is that young people today think they have some right to be young and fit. I just hope Mat doesn't suffer like my daughter has. She is near enough the same age as he but is sick and infirm. I really hope he stays young and healthy. I wouldn't wish such things as she is going through on anyone least of all Mat.
I know Grahame, but none of us have any idea what is round the corner.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 10:13:AM by maggie »

Offline grahameb

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I will put this in here because I don't want it to become a forum issue. Of the opposition I find the following people I respect. Bridget, Hartley, Petey, Tony, Steve-uk, Andrea. And all those I cannot recall for the moment. ;D Opps I forgot Vic.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2012, 10:37:AM by grahame »

Offline nugnug

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    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
now if the t shir had really belonged to jodis sister then surely jodis sisters dna would be on it but none of her dna is on it witch says to me it could not of been her t shirt.

Offline grahameb

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I know Grahame, but none of us know what is round the corner.
I know Maggie. That is why Mat was very unwise in what he said.