Author Topic: The breaking of the rifle stock  (Read 7345 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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The breaking of the rifle stock
« on: June 17, 2014, 10:28:PM »


Nevill was struck by the butt of the rifle. This image shows how someone would hold a rifle to strike someone in the head with it.  One hand around the narrow part of the stock and the other hand around the foregrip.  If you don't hold it this way the gun is not only hard to control it will fall out of your hands as you hit someone.

As you strike someone what happens to the gun?  The wooden stock is pushed against the metal of the gun where the stock attaches to the rifle.



If the strikes are hard enough and the wood has flaws then the wood could split.

That is what happened a piece of wood split off as the wood was forced into the metal. 

Where would the hand have been of the person wielding the rifle?  Right where the break occurred so the hand would have been cut or damaged in some way unless gloves were being worn.

This shows the missing wood which happens to be right where the metal curves in so the wood in this area would have hit the metal while it was not hitting in the lower region which helps explain why it split and broke in this particualr area and manner. 

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/_/rsrc/1332405668994/the-rifle/Rifle1.jpg

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Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 11:08:PM »
 I think Sheila hit the Aga and not her father. Neville would have dodged the full blow of the butt which would have caused Sheila to go off-balance with the force behind her,and as a consequence,hit the frame of something hard. Could even have been the door frame.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 11:35:PM »
I think Sheila hit the Aga and not her father. Neville would have dodged the full blow of the butt which would have caused Sheila to go off-balance with the force behind her,and as a consequence,hit the frame of something hard. Could even have been the door frame.

The righ side if his head was bashed in and his arms had defensive wounds.

The killer definitely smashed his head with the rifle even if the stock broke from hitting something while glancing off of him.

He was knocked unconscious from having his head bashed then the killer loaded at least 4 rounds int o the mag and emptied 4 rounds in his head. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2014, 06:52:PM »
The righ side if his head was bashed in and his arms had defensive wounds.

The killer definitely smashed his head with the rifle even if the stock broke from hitting something while glancing off of him.

He was knocked unconscious from having his head bashed then the killer loaded at least 4 rounds int o the mag and emptied 4 rounds in his head.

How do you know he was not hit around the head after  being shot - and why could not they ID the blood on the rifle?

Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2014, 07:12:PM »
 Another year,1987,and they could have DNA'd everything.

Offline Alias

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 07:17:PM »
Another year,1987,and they could have DNA'd everything.

They could have NOT ILLEGALLY DESTROYED ALL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IN 1996 - and DNA´d everything. WONDER why they did that RIGHT around the time when forensic DNA testing was gaining ground on a grand scale...

Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 07:25:PM »
They could have NOT ILLEGALLY DESTROYED ALL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IN 1996 - and DNA´d everything. WONDER why they did that RIGHT around the time when forensic DNA testing was gaining ground on a grand scale...





They seem to fall foul when it comes to testing and accuracy,as I read about another case where a jury weren't told of any such results and the guy was imprisoned for 17 years ( innocent ) His sentence was quashed last year and he was released last December.
No compensation because Chris Grayling said it wasn't an MOJ ! What hope Jeremy ?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 07:31:PM »
They could have NOT ILLEGALLY DESTROYED ALL PHYSICAL EVIDENCE IN 1996 - and DNA´d everything. WONDER why they did that RIGHT around the time when forensic DNA testing was gaining ground on a grand scale...

Prove it was illegal. Post what law was violated. The claims there was a court order preventing destruction was false.  The claim a law prevented it was false. There were police guildelines, that lacked the force of law, which allegedly were violated in the destruction.

Such action being illegal would not have any bearing on the case anyway but as usual you are wrong.

In the meantime DNA tests were able to be conducted anway but were worthless because they had no ability to prove the blood tested by the prosecution and defense that had been found on the baffles and the the flake found in between baffle 1 and 2 were not Sheila's. 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2014, 07:34:PM »

They seem to fall foul when it comes to testing and accuracy,as I read about another case where a jury weren't told of any such results and the guy was imprisoned for 17 years ( innocent ) His sentence was quashed last year and he was released last December.
No compensation because Chris Grayling said it wasn't an MOJ ! What hope Jeremy ?

Aside from being irraitonal nonsense your post has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.  This threa dis about how the stock was thrusted by the killer, how it broke and what damage the killer would have suffered unless wearing gloves or the like to protect the killer's hands.

You seem to want to change the subject because Sheila would not have been likely wearing gloves, no gloves were found that she could have been wearing and the had no damage to her hands.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2014, 07:53:PM »
 Shutta ya face,,I was talking of DNA testing which is,,or should have been,relevant to this case.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2014, 09:05:PM »
Shutta ya face,,I was talking of DNA testing which is,,or should have been,relevant to this case.

The only DNA testing that could have been relevant to overturn the conviction would be DNA testing of the blood that the prosecution and defense found to be group A human blood.  In all likelihood the tests they performed would have prevented any successful DNA testing but neither expert saved such evidence.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2014, 10:20:PM »
 DNA doesn't just include blood you know.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2014, 11:02:PM »
DNA doesn't just include blood you know.

and?

How would finding non blood based DNA help establish Jeremy is innocent?

Short of DNA proving all the group A blood found by the prosecution and defense experts in the suppressor was not Sheila's there is no way that DNA evidence could help Jeremy.

Blood found on the first several baffles and blood from a flake stuck in between the 1st and second baffle tested as group A blood consistent with Sheila's blood.

If a DNA test proved both the blood found on the baffles as well as the blood from the flake was not from Sheila then the prosecution would be left with no evidence to prove Sheila's blood was in the suppressor.

To prove this would require a DNA test of the exact blood that tested as group A.  Such test would have to successfully provide a DNA profile of the contributor(s).  If that happened and Sheila were not a contributor then in that case a new trial would be warranted because the Jury heard evidence this specific blood was Sheilas but there is proof it is not.

But such blood no longer exists so can't be tested and would have unlikely been able to be typed anyway because the blood tests done destroy DNA. 

There is no other use a DNA test could serve with respect to trying to disprove the suppressor evidence.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2014, 08:48:AM »
and?

How would finding non blood based DNA help establish Jeremy is innocent?

Short of DNA proving all the group A blood found by the prosecution and defense experts in the suppressor was not Sheila's there is no way that DNA evidence could help Jeremy.

Blood found on the first several baffles and blood from a flake stuck in between the 1st and second baffle tested as group A blood consistent with Sheila's blood.

If a DNA test proved both the blood found on the baffles as well as the blood from the flake was not from Sheila then the prosecution would be left with no evidence to prove Sheila's blood was in the suppressor.

To prove this would require a DNA test of the exact blood that tested as group A.  Such test would have to successfully provide a DNA profile of the contributor(s).  If that happened and Sheila were not a contributor then in that case a new trial would be warranted because the Jury heard evidence this specific blood was Sheilas but there is proof it is not.

But such blood no longer exists so can't be tested and would have unlikely been able to be typed anyway because the blood tests done destroy DNA. 

There is no other use a DNA test could serve with respect to trying to disprove the suppressor evidence.

 






If everything had been preserved instead of having been destroyed,,then DNA testing would have been carried out for sweat from Jeremy,,for starters,,as even the most minute particles can be detected. Fibres,hair,etc.

I think flourescine or similar was used in the drain to see if Jeremy had showered in " his wetsuit ".

The bottom line is, that NOTHING was detected in which to incriminate Jeremy,,and I'd imagine that EP went to great lengths in trying to finding  something,however small,,but when all else failed,the " red herring " known as the silencer/moderator,fitted the bill because it all helped to add confusion to the jury.

Offline Alias

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Re: The breaking of the rifle stock
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2014, 01:01:PM »
There had been a judicial review in 1996, which granted Jeremy and his team access to the physical evidence - then, POOF, OOPS, it was destroyed minus the silencer.....

Why would Jeremy wish the material examined if he had something to hide? He would never have even mentioned it!