Author Topic: why the police might of moved the body.  (Read 3777 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 08:31:PM »
they would take a photograph because its procedure to do so.

they wouldent of cared about finding out the cause of death because they thought they already knew it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 08:33:PM by nugnug »

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 08:35:PM »
that's what you call putting words into someones mouth.

Some of the officers stated that they thought the body position was not as they remembered by the time the photos were taken.

If they were the crime scene photos that were to be used in court then that fact should have been noted.

That is a very important point. And as you say in a later post, this fact should have been made clear at the trial.
I think the EP had moved Sheila´s body (or maybe just the rifle, but by doing so, they had already compromised the original position) already when it occurred to them that they needed to photograph it in situ. I do think she was first found in the spot we see, but not quite in the position she was placed in - which then made it look as if Jeremy had staged it.
The little blood-free rug under me bother me to no end. Can´t figure out what it is doing there.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 08:36:PM »
None of the police have ever said they moved the bodies prior to the photos being taken.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 08:38:PM »
well they wouldent they thre not supposed to do it.

they would of been in trouble if they mentioned doing it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 08:39:PM by nugnug »

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2014, 08:39:PM »
None of the police have ever said they moved the bodies prior to the photos being taken.

Bews said they moved her arm around, which is also clear from the pictures we have of Sheila´s body.
You can also see that the bible was moved around, but he never mentions that.
Leaves you wondering what else was moved around - especially when some officers say that she was in a different position when they first saw her.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2014, 08:52:PM »
well they wouldent they thre not supposed to do it.

they would of been in trouble if they mentioned doing it.

Jeremy is not going to get released by claiming the police moved the bodies. He needs evidence or a confession.

An expert at the 2002 trial said Sheila's feet were pulled after the second shot. They suggested this highlighted Jeremy's guilt.

There is no reason for the police to move the bodies in the short period between entrance and the photographer arriving. Even in 1985 it was part of police protocol.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2014, 08:54:PM »
how do you know that if it was moved you dont know where it was in the first place.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2014, 09:00:PM »
If you want to believe the police moved the bodies for some reason, then denied it. Feel free.

I don't know how it shows Jeremy's innocence.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2014, 09:01:PM »
i never said it did.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2014, 09:27:PM »
 From the 2002 appeal :

518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.

519. Having studied with care the statement of Mr Ismail, we concluded that this was expert evidence capable of belief. Indeed if it had been given and if cross-examination had not revealed flaws in it (which we consider unlikely bearing in mind that there was no application to call any expert evidence to contradict it), had we been on a jury hearing such evidence we might well have been very impressed by it. That evidence in itself could have led to a conclusion of guilt quite apart from the many other matters relied upon by the prosecution at trial. However, we were not satisfied that evidence of this kind was not available at the date of trial if the prosecution had sought to explore these matters and more importantly we thought that Mr Turner was right in his submission that it was very difficult to gauge with sufficient certainty the reaction of a jury to it particularly when we could not judge it against all the related evidence in the trial, which we had not heard.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2014, 09:33:PM »
that's what you call putting words into someones mouth.

Some of the officers stated that they thought the body position was not as they remembered by the time the photos were taken.

If they were the crime scene photos that were to be used in court then that fact should have been noted.

Did you see this, Adam?

Online nugnug

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 17252
    • http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnnyvoid.wordpress.com%2F&ei=WTdUUo3IM6mY0QWYz4GADg&usg=AFQjCNE-8xtZuPAZ52VkntYOokH5da5MIA&bvm=bv.5353710
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2014, 09:49:PM »
so this is the police in there own words some of them seemd to think it had been moved.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2014, 10:08:PM »
I did not see it. Would be good to see the source.

Thought most of the officers were outside, comforting a sobbing Jeremy.

The way people speak, it is as if  there were hundreds of officers outside WHF. There was only a handful.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2014, 10:16:PM »
I did not see it. Would be good to see the source.

Thought most of the officers were outside, comforting a sobbing Jeremy.

The way people speak, it is as if  there were hundreds of officers outside WHF. There was only a handful.

There were sixty something officers all in all - a great deal of those trampled through the farmhouse - the crime scene. More than fourty, I believe.

Offline Adam

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 44410
Re: why the police might of moved the body.
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2014, 10:16:PM »
Did you see the 2002 court transcript ?

There is no suggestion that the police pulled Sheila's legs. So who did ?
'Only I know what really happened that night'.