Author Topic: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?  (Read 5522 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2014, 02:12:AM »
This is a question to the people on the board who think Jeremy is guilty. It has been talked about in another thread, but didn´t really belong in the thread about Pargeter´s rifle.
Please, step by step, describe how he did it. Scipio claims that Sheila sat on the floor with her back leaning against Nevill´s side of the bed, and that Jeremy stood and shot her holding the rifle at his hip.
I have a hard time seeing how it could have happened that way. For one, there was no room for that, look:

I also asked him to describe in detail how he thought the second shot was fired, but he never answered. Perhaps now?

1) I said she was propped against something I didn't say the bed. She could have been propped against the chair as an expert guessed, against the night stand even the door. The chair could even have been next to the bed and then moved to the wall afterwards we have no way of knowing.  It makes no real difference, there were plenty of different areas to prop her body against.   

2) I answered you, you didn't like the answer I gave after I took apart your suggestion that she was shot on the bed.

The evidence proves she was seated when shot and propped against something. If seated but not propped against something she would have immediately fell backwards.  If she immediately fell backwards upon being shot she would not have bled on her arm and into her lap.  The blood would simply have went down the side of her neck.  That is why we know she was seated with something holding her up- that is the only way to account for the blood dripping down onto her arm and gown.

The medical examiner stated that if she stayed seated a long time before the second shot was fired a great deal more blood would have leaked onto her dress and arms. He estimated that she was shot the second time within a few seconds.

He further stated she did not at any time stand or walk after being shot because the blood did not support such.

The examiner states she was in the same position for both shots which were fired seconds apart and moved afterwards. 



Modern blood analysis experts agree with this asserting that she was seated then after she died she was dragged flat.

How far after she died was her body dragged flat?  Not long after death because if a significant amount of time passed then the blood would not have dripped down the side of her neck and instead pooled elsewhere.  She was moved not long after shot, the blood dripped down the side of her neck and onto the floor where it pooled.

The bible got stained by being deposited in that pool of blood.  It was opened and closed after being deposited in that pool of blood that formed after she died.  How soon after wa sit opened and closed?  While her blood was still wet and that pool of blood would not have still been wet when police found it.

Sheila could neither move her own body nor open and close the bible in her own pool of blood after she was dead.  Nor could she put the suppressor away after she was dead.  The killer did these things.  Why was Jeremy messing around with the bible?  Only he knows what he was trying to accomplish but having difficulty doing so.
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Offline lookout

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2014, 11:20:AM »
 How far was Sheilas' body from Junes' ? Rough guess.

Offline Alias

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2014, 12:20:PM »
Wasn´t it rather stupid of Jeremy to shoot Sheila twice if he wanted it to look like suicide?

Offline Jane

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2014, 12:26:PM »
Wasn´t it rather stupid of Jeremy to shoot Sheila twice if he wanted it to look like suicide?


Yes, because the first shot would have BEEN fatal. She wouldn't have survived it. Presumably she wouldn't have been able to speak and there's a question mark over how far she could have moved.

Offline Jan

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2014, 07:57:PM »
Wasn´t it rather stupid of Jeremy to shoot Sheila twice if he wanted it to look like suicide?

No more stupid than leaving a bloody silencer for the police to find or telling his girlfriend or faking a phone call or moving the bike to his house  or not crying at the funeral tbh.


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2014, 08:11:PM »
Wasn´t it rather stupid of Jeremy to shoot Sheila twice if he wanted it to look like suicide?

His first shot failed to kill her so he felt he had no choice but to shoot her again.

Had he done a better job then 2 shots would not have been required.  He shot her neck, it went into her vertebrae instead of her skull so he had to try again. He wasn't leaving the house with anyone alive and potentially being able to talk to police before they finally died or worse with the chance of recovering.

 

 
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Offline Alias

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2014, 08:24:PM »
His first shot failed to kill her so he felt he had no choice but to shoot her again.

Had he done a better job then 2 shots would not have been required.  He shot her neck, it went into her vertebrae instead of her skull so he had to try again. He wasn't leaving the house with anyone alive and potentially being able to talk to police before they finally died or worse with the chance of recovering.

 

 

I guess everything can be explained away, but this one is hard to buy. He would have waited to see what happened - if she wouldn´t die after all. Istead he shot her the second time right away.
There are so many pieces of the puzzle which don´t seem to fit when it comes to the way Sheila was killed. Nothing quite makes sense here.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2014, 08:41:PM »
I guess everything can be explained away, but this one is hard to buy. He would have waited to see what happened - if she wouldn´t die after all. Istead he shot her the second time right away.
There are so many pieces of the puzzle which don´t seem to fit when it comes to the way Sheila was killed. Nothing quite makes sense here.

How do you know he would have waited a long time to see if she would have died.  He could have panicked.  He could have feared she would get up and run like Nevill did.  He even could have felt guilty about leaving her in agony he caused and thought it best to not leave her suffering in pain.  Greedy people who kill for money are not always sadists and sometimes try to rationalize their actions.  He tried to rationize his by saying he was putting peopel out of their misery and even helping Colin by getting rid of weights around his neck.

It is easy to sit back and say what he should have done in hindsight but when you are actually the one there doing shooting and undergoing the stress involved it is a different matter.  He had no way to know she would die from the wound at all let alone how long it would take. It is unnerving to realize someone you wounded is not dead like you want so could potentially challenge you and also not pleasant to watch someone in agony even if you don't much like the person unless you are a true psychopath/sadist.     

 
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Offline Alias

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2014, 08:47:PM »
How do you know he would have waited a long time to see if she would have died.  He could have panicked. My claim is that he wouldn´t have panicked that fast. He would have needed some time for it to sink in that she hadn´t died right away. You claim she received the shots very quickly, one after the other. Then he arranged her body, also very quickly. Then took tome to place the Bible. Not that panicky if you think about it. He could have feared she would get up and run like Nevill did.  He even could have felt guilty about leaving her in agony he caused and thought it best to not leave her suffering in pain.  Greedy people who kill for money are not always sadists and sometimes try to rationalize their actions.  He tried to rationize his by saying he was putting peopel out of their misery and even helping Colin by getting rid of weights around his neck.

It is easy to sit back and say what he should have done in hindsight but when you are actually the one there doing shooting and undergoing the stress involved it is a different matter.  He had no way to know she would die from the wound at all let alone how long it would take. It is unnerving to realize someone you wounded is not dead like you want so could potentially challenge you and also not pleasant to watch someone in agony even if you don't much like the person unless you are a true psychopath/sadist.     

 

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2014, 02:05:AM »
My claim is that he wouldn´t have panicked that fast. He would have needed some time for it to sink in that she hadn´t died right away.

You claim she received the shots very quickly, one after the other.

It is the evidence which proves she was shot very quickly with the shots only several seconds apart.  So even though you like to think he would nto panic and shoot her again rapidly the fact remains that she was shot with only several seconds between shots because otherwise there would have been significantly more blood. 


Then he arranged her body, also very quickly. Then took tome to place the Bible. Not that panicky if you think about it.

What he did after she was dead has little to do with whether he panicked after seeing she didn't die from the first shot. 

At any rate he apparently was not sure what he was doing with the bible because he played around with it quite a bit for some reason.

He also apparently found out while staging her body that the suppressor made the gun too long so after pulling her flat he rmeoved the suppressor before placing it on her.

She neede dot be dead for him to stage her body so her needed her dead not with the ability to move around and mess up however he would stage her.  Waiting for her to die before he could finally stage her could have taken a long time for all he knew.

There were thus many different reaosns for him to shoot her again instead of waiting to see if she eventually died.


 
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Offline lookout

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2014, 10:22:AM »
 " Shoot her again ",,my eye ! He didn't shoot anyone. He's been trying to tell that to thickheads like you for nearly 30 years,,but they haven't got the nouse to look any further !

Offline grahameb

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2014, 10:35:AM »
" Shoot her again ",,my eye ! He didn't shoot anyone. He's been trying to tell that to thickheads like you for nearly 30 years,,but they haven't got the nouse to look any further !
It is all very well them coming up with all these theories (guesswork basically) but they first have to place him at the house. Nobody but nobody has been able to do that. Even the bike was forensically tested and found to have nothing to do with the crime. Yet this of course has been nudged into the background as they keep bringing it up again and again.
Why do they do that, you may say? Because if it was taken out of the equation then their whole badly nailed together scenarios all fall apart at the seams, that's why.
All that was done in the court was to continually suggest that the bike was used. But of course failing to speak about the forensic testing that put the bike totally out of the equation.

Offline lookout

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2014, 11:23:AM »
 All these little incidentals such as the bike have all been done to death simply because there's absolutely nothing to go on. This is why there's been so much of a hoo-ha over the silencer,scratched Aga ( which was done a month later ! ) the wetsuit,file,windows,etc,etc.
All these have nothing whatsoever to do with what ACTUALLY happened inside the confines of the farmhouse that night between June,Neville and Sheila.

Offline Alias

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2014, 01:56:PM »
When we come to the shooting of Sheila, I find that the guilters have to come up with long tales of bizarre explanations about how it went down. Which tells me that it just didn´t happen the way they imagine it did.
Shooting her twice and expect it to be considered a suicide would be far from Jeremy´s mind - even though a percentage of suicides by firearm have happened with two or more shots; I just don´t thnk Jeremy would have known that and expected to get away with it.
He then proceded to call the police, cool, calm and collected, to further his story of suicide. I don´t think so! He would have been shaking in his boots over those two shots and not contacted the police at all.

Offline lookout

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Re: How Did Jeremy Shoot Sheila?
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2014, 02:05:PM »
 Strange as it may seem,Alias,,but the more stupid the theory from the antis',,the better the clues it gives you to Jeremys' innocence,,because some are so far-fetched,,that they don't realise that they're answering their own questions at times,as well as furthering Jeremys' pleas of innocence.  ;D ;D