The Pargeter rifle

[scipio_usmc]

no over here they wont take reference from just anybody

well most of the time.


but  they can hardly ignore a reference from a man who approves licences himself.

If I makes you sleep better at night you can think that but unless a reference is a gangbanger or someone else viewed as being on the wrong side of the law they don't reject licenses becuase of the person vouching is not trustworthy.

Short of the bad of the bad this is really just a farce step.

Moreso it is the need aspect that they reject applications over.

The voucher step moreso is used as an excuse to delay consideration because they need to get in touch with such people sometimes. So it exists mainly to lengthen the process.

[nugnug]

a gun licence isnt a right you have to justify wanting one.

[grahameb]

Post exact quotes of what you claim to be contradictory.  You have a habit of not knowing what people actually stated.

Scipio I stand corrected on Pargeter's rifle and the terms of the license. This is from The official website. I think there is a copy of his license on the forum somewhere? Or it may be a copy of the Bamber license?

Annthony Pargeter’s gun was licensed in 1980 for three years, and renewed in 1983, it was to be used at White House Farm, but the license stipulated that it was to be kept at his home in Bourne End, Bucks, he was also issued with a sound moderator for use with the rifle at White House Farm.  [6]

So, we have established that Anthony did keep his rifle at the farm which was in breach of his license. Secondly that he owned a sound moderator which was also under the same license terms as the rifle.

Anthony Pargeter sued the Sport Newspaper in 1991 after they had misled readers by suggesting that his rifle had been at White Hosue Farm and possibly used during the tragedies.  The Sport lost the libel case and Pargeter was awarded compensation of £40,000 plus costs of £60,000. [7]

[nugnug]

wouldn't that mean hes defrauded the sunday sport out of a large some of money.

[grahameb]

wouldn't that mean hes defrauded the sunday sport out of a large some of money.

I think all libel cases are fraud. who is worth £40,000 plus £60,000? Honestly.

[nugnug]

but hes sued them for saying something about him that was perfectly true and obtained damages i do belive  that is obtaining money under false pretenses,.

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio I stand corrected on Pargeter's rifle and the terms of the license. This is from The official website. I think there is a copy of his license on the forum somewhere? Or it may be a copy of the Bamber license?

I would like to see a copy to see whether it actually stated he had to keep it a his home or not. It could simply be an assumption.

Now you have to because since 1989 you have to keep it out of the hands of others. You have a legal duty to store it in a manner that prevents it from being used by someone else and could potentially be jailed 6 months if you fail to take adequate measures.

One assumes this law was passed gun owners were too lax in where they left their guns through the eyes of the government.  I don't know if some tragedy promted it but many times that is the case.   

[grahameb]

I would like to see a copy to see whether it actually stated he had to keep it a his home or not. It could simply be an assumption.

Now you have to because since 1989 you have to keep it out of the hands of others. You have a legal duty to store it in a manner that prevents it from being used by someone else and could potentially be jailed 6 months if you fail to take adequate measures.

One assumes this law was passed gun owners were too lax in where they left their guns through the eyes of the government.  I don't know if some tragedy promted it but many times that is the case.

I think there are a lot of things based on assumption.

[Jan]

AP 1991 statement in the archives is interesting- especially where he "found " himself recreating the suicide  using his gun with the police.

I did not realise he lived in Buckinghamshire . and funnily enough I know the family of the gun shop where he bought his gun.

small world.

[scipio_usmc]

but hes sued them for saying something about him that was perfectly true and obtained damages i do belive  that is obtaining money under false pretenses,.

The newspaper lost because what they stated was not true and they failed to adequately research the matter.

There is no evidence at all that his gun was used, this statement was made with a reckless disregard for the truth. 

There was no ballistic match and he stated he removed the bolt (so it could not be used) and that he took the whole gun it home with him after his last visit.

If it wasn't there at all or was there sans bolt in either event it could not be used.


It is funny though that he made so much money off it, especially since they didn't necessarily say he fired it just that his gun might have been used but the jury found the implication he did it was there.
 

[nugnug]

I think all libel cases are fraud. who is worth £40,000 plus £60,000? Honestly.

well he was after he  had sued them.

[scipio_usmc]

By the way does anyone have the serial number of his gun so we can look up the exact make.

Nearly all of these had 6 lands and grooves but there were some made with microgrooved barrels with 12 lands and grooves.

No one would use a bolt action rifle instead of a semi-auto and the marks left on the casings would look markely different but we can go through the motions anyway.

The Anschutz 525 has 8 lands and grooves. 

[nugnug]

hang on this may sound like a stupid question it probably is but if he took it before the murders how did anybody know it was there in the first place.

[grahameb]

hang on this may sound like a stupid question it probably is but if he took it before the murders how did anybody know it was there in the first place.

We only know it was there because he said it was in his statement. I suppose he thought he's better confess that it was there just in case someone else did and he was eager to keep out of it the best he could? Personally I think it would be a very remote possibility that his gun was used? I don't think it was myself.

[scipio_usmc]

hang on this may sound like a stupid question it probably is but if he took it before the murders how did anybody know it was there in the first place.

If by "in the first place" you mean "there ever" the answer is he told police such. 

He said that towards the end of the year he removed the bolt and took it with him but left the remainder of the rifle there along with the case and magazines. He purchased a scope and suppressor which he installed on this visit prior to the murders then took the case home with him.

He also said that his shotguns remained there and were present during the murders.