The Pargeter rifle

[lookout]

 It wasn't on Jeremys' say-so that " Taff " Jones had said it was 4 murders and a suicide at all.  I've never heard such a lie in all my life--------------well I have actually,,many on here !

It was purely on the decision of " Taff " Jones who'd said it,,,and rightly,too,,as that's what it was.

Prosecutors can say anything though,can't they ? They're a law unto themselves !

[scipio_usmc]

It wasn't on Jeremys' say-so that " Taff " Jones had said it was 4 murders and a suicide at all.  I've never heard such a lie in all my life--------------well I have actually,,many on here !

It was purely on the decision of " Taff " Jones who'd said it,,,and rightly,too,,as that's what it was.

Prosecutors can say anything though,can't they ? They're a law unto themselves !

The only lies are from you.

Taff Jones decided within 2 hours that it was 4 murders and a suicide.  What evidence did he have at the time?  jeremy's claims and the position of the rifle nothing more.

No ballistics evidence to prove whether any were killed by the weapon on Sheila, no forensic evidence to establish Sheila had done a thing.  The position of the body with the rifle on it and Jeremy's claims were all he had at the time and that is what he based his decision on.

 

[nugnug]

taff came to this conclusion he had at hand nothing to do with Jeremy at the time 4 murders and suicide was the obvious conclusion.

i imagene he based the this on the raid team had told him

[lookout]

The only lies are from you.

Taff Jones decided within 2 hours that it was 4 murders and a suicide.  What evidence did he have at the time?  jeremy's claims and the position of the rifle nothing more.

No ballistics evidence to prove whether any were killed by the weapon on Sheila, no forensic evidence to establish Sheila had done a thing.  The position of the body with the rifle on it and Jeremy's claims were all he had at the time and that is what he based his decision on.

I'm not in the habit of telling lies. How dare you !

Jeremy claimed NOTHING ! He was in no position to know how the deceased were found.That was all left to Jones,,who I said,,made the final decision NOT Jeremy.

Not very knowledgeable are you for an ARMCHAIR " lawyer ?".

You're like Adam.You don't look any further. Which a lawyer would do,,and what's more,,a lawyer wouldn't spend as many hours on a forum either,,so don't try and pull the wool here,,it doesn't work with me. 

[nugnug]

the police decided it at first based on what they had seen with there own eyes they had no need for anyone to tell them


if you see someone with a gun wound to the neck and a gun right beside them and theres 4 other dead people in the house what else are you going to think but 4 murder and a suicide.

[lookout]

 There may well have been other indications,nugs,,because every time I see that pic of Sheila with the rifle on her body,,I can't help getting the distinct impression that it was just " placed " there.

[Caroline]

If he removed it after the murders it is obvious, he would no longer be visiting and scared Jeremy would steal it.

My mom's cousin left his tools at the house his mother shared with her brothers (all were elderly so he fixed up things for them).  After she died he still kept the tools there to take care of his uncles.  Another cousin did some illicit things and sold the house to keep the money for himself and either stole the tools or threw them away claiming they were not found by him. 

If he did so before the murders there are still logical reasons f or it but it is less easy to know for sure why

He said he removed the rifle around about a week before the murders, not after.

[lookout]

 Also,the two shots to her neck,,I believe weren't delivered by her own hand. These are just my own personal opinions,,and not the way that everyone else sees it.

[grahameb]

The shell casings were all fired from the murder weapon per the firing pin impressions/extraction marks/ breech marks.

This means not only were the 15 bullets that had striae to indicate they were fired from the murder weapon fired from it but also the remaining 10.

You neglect to mention the test firing of the rifle which would not only produce the same marks, but also produced whole bullets with not human material on them. The police conveniently forgot to mention those.

[grahameb]

I'd like to see a copy because I have not heard of such a thing and I have friends who moved from England who owned weapons there and here and talked to me about how much better things are here because they could use any range they like and just collect weapons without even needing to want them for target shooting or hunting.  The law as they explained it to me matches what I have read regardling legal information.  I can't find anything that mentions a firearms license limiting possession to a specific place. 

Storage laws have to do with what they must be locked in but that's it not where.

I'm afraid that it refers to WHERE the guns and their components are kept as well.

[grahameb]

Today it does but such law was passed well after the murders. It went into force in 1989 (Firearms Rules 1989 Section (4)(iv)(A))

Sorry wrong again. My stepfather kept firearms. The police came to inspect the place where they were kept. WHF was in breach of those laws at the time of the murders. My stepfather had to get a special metal cabinet made. This was built into the lintel over the door and the access was in another room which was to be kept locked at all times. At no time were those guns to be taken off the premises.

[grahameb]

If he removed it after the murders it is obvious, he would no longer be visiting and scared Jeremy would steal it.

My mom's cousin left his tools at the house his mother shared with her brothers (all were elderly so he fixed up things for them).  After she died he still kept the tools there to take care of his uncles.  Another cousin did some illicit things and sold the house to keep the money for himself and either stole the tools or threw them away claiming they were not found by him. 

If he did so before the murders there are still logical reasons f or it but it is less easy to know for sure why

So you can read Pargeters mind could you? Also I'm afraid it was the other way round. It was not Jeremy who first removed things from WHF it was the relatives. Who knows what went missing when they went into the house on the 9th of August?
By the way the invantory of the weapons was exactly the same as the relatives invantory.

[grahameb]

There is nothing wrong at all with doing so after police already take what they want.  Had Inspector Jones have actually done his job instead of deciding it was a murder suicide just based on Jeremy's say so and the fact the gun was found on her body and handled it as a traditional homicide investigation then police would have taken all firearms in the house.  They didn't which is the fault of police. 

There is nothing that prevents removing property after police process a scene.  If it is your property you can take it.

The lack of proper crime scene handling mostly stems from Taff Jones deciding he was chalking it up to murder suicide and that's it, not even bothering to call a firearms expert to the scene.  This explains in part why he lost command of the case since under his direction it was so poorly handled.

That's just it the it was not the relative's property but they still took things. Then everybody makes a fuss because Jeremy took some stuff. Suddenly it is he who is referred to as the thief.

[grahameb]

The only lies are from you.

Taff Jones decided within 2 hours that it was 4 murders and a suicide.  What evidence did he have at the time?  jeremy's claims and the position of the rifle nothing more.

No ballistics evidence to prove whether any were killed by the weapon on Sheila, no forensic evidence to establish Sheila had done a thing.  The position of the body with the rifle on it and Jeremy's claims were all he had at the time and that is what he based his decision on.

How do you know how Jones made up his mind? It was the scene of the crime that caused him and every other officer who went in that place to believe that it was murder and suicide not just because Jeremy said so. Wake up man. Since when have coppers listened to members of the public?


It took weeks of nagging by the relatives and their playing on the weak mind of one of the younger coppers that Taff Jones reluctantly questioned Jeremy in interigation conditions. But Taff Jones never changed his mind up until he died. I believe that if he was alive to take the stand the outcome would have been quite different? You aren't interested in the truth at all.

You just want the blood of Jeremy so you can rub his nose in all the shit others have made up about him. If you were truly interested in justice you would be very much interested in all the inconsistences and altered notebooks and statements of the police and their continued bullish resistence in releasing various documents pertaining to the case. But you are not the least bit interested if there was police corruption or not are you?

[grahameb]

taff came to this conclusion he had at hand nothing to do with Jeremy at the time 4 murders and suicide was the obvious conclusion.

i imagene he based the this on the raid team had told him

Yes that is right nugnug. He was not present at the scene and never even conversed with Jeremy. Som how could he have been "influenced" by him? Honestly, some of the silly suggestions made by some. Sometomes I must stuff my fist into my mouth in order to stop myself laughing at some of these plainly idiotic suggestions. And what's more they are supposedly intelligent people who made these suggestions. Taff Jones was a cop of 30 years experience and some rooky youngster was persuaded by a Miss Marple from, guess where? The relatives, who obviously gained no benefit at all from the gaoling of Jeremy.
Some family. With a family like that who from the very first day were "persuaded" that Jeremy had done this dastardly deed, who needs enemies? And to think that Jeremy was never aware of the silken trap that they were all setting for him.