Author Topic: The last ultimate test of gun, to prove sound moderator was not used in shooting  (Read 49874 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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The suggestion that there was only ever just one silencer, with all these different exhibit refences of SBJ/1, SJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1, is outrageous, preposterous and dishonest, and the morons who think this is the true explanation need thier heads seeing to. These morons have no sense of logic, they have no explanation for why DSJones took possession of one of the two key silencers (SBJ/1) from the scene on 7th August 1985, three full days before the relatives found the other key silencer at the farmhouse. They have no answer to account for how the same silencer could have been kept in two different places by different people, since the relatives silencer (SJ/1) remained in Ron Cooks personal possession for a total of 17 days, carried about in his pockets all the while between 13th and 30th August 1985, whilst the other key silencer (SBJ/1) was being used as a paper weight on DCI 'Taff' Jones desk at Witham police station until 30th August 1985, at which stage PC Whiddon took possession of it and arranged for it to be sent to the lab' that same date (30th August) inside which the critical loose flake was eventually found on 11th September 1985...

Whilst the loose flake was being found in silencer DB/1 at the lab' on 11th September, Ann Eaton still had possession of the other key silencer (SJ/1) in her possession at home and it only got recollected from her later on, on 11th September 1985. Even then, the silencer given to police by Ann Eaton on 11th September was retained by Essex police, fingerprinted by DS Davidson and DS Eastwood on 13th September 1985, and not sent to the lab' by police to be checked for blood and fibers until 20th September 1985, so how could police still have the silencer until 29th September and it already being at the lab' from as long ago as 30th August, inside which the critical loose flake had already been found and analysed whilst police still had possession of the silencer the blood was supposedly found inside it elsewhere...

Why send a silencer to the lab' on 20th September 1985, to be checked for blood, if blood had already been found inside it, and the silencer had been checked for blood...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 09:23:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Jan

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Hi jansus,

It does, because police handed back silencer SJ/1 to relatives after 29th August 1985, and what happened was that once Jeremy was arrested on the first occasion at the beginning of September 1985, the relatives sought to re-introduce the silencer, partly out of a desire to havve it accepted as a valuable piecce of evidence that might help to keep Jeremy locked up, but also because police were enquiring as to its whereabouts after Julie Mugford came forward. The fatcs of the matter are that the relatives did find a silencer at the scene on 10th August, which was handed to police on the 12th August, and was taken to the Lab' at Huntingdon on 13th August, and retained thereafter by DI Cook until around the 29th August at which stage it was returned to the family because examination of it produced no useful evidence upon which to prosecute Jeremy as the killer..

This led to the relatives still having possession of that (SJ/1) silencer, whilst the other one (DB/1) Lab' item 23, which had been at the Lab' from 30th August 1985, produced the loose flake with the blood group activity, A, EAP BA, HP 2-1, and the animal / human AK1. Once this loose flake was discovered inside the other silencer (DB/1) at the lab' police took more of an interest in the silencer (SJ/1) given back to the relatives after 29th August. This led to DC Oaky collecting this other silencer (SJ/1) from Ann Eaton on the 11th September 1985, and what caused David Boutflour to contact Essex police by telephone on the 12th September to report that he had found the gun silencer (SJ/1 - lab' item 22...

Hope this explanation helps...

it does because there is a statement from one of the family which mentioning "returning" the silencer to the police. Others have explained it by saying all the contents of the house were handed to them, so thats what it meant. But your explanation makes more sense.


Offline Jan

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I also think it is important to keep the fact that some of this "investigation" was actually done by the police and not an "independent" lab. Probably not something that would happen today .


Offline grahameb

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Why would he? Not only is it a detail he wanted no one to know about it is not  adetail that he had any reason to share in discussing the murders to the extent he did with Julie.  He clearly did not do a step by step true account of everything that happened. He even lied about the twins dying first, clearly they didn't the master bedroom was clearly the first place any shooting occurred.

While Julie was not the virtuous type neither was she the type impressed about the killings.  There are women who like that and get off on their men telling them exactly what they did and the more diabolical the better.  She was not the kind he could do that with so made up the hit man to try to pretend he wasn't as cold blooded as he actually was. 

Brett Collins is more the type who he could brag to about every detail and how smart he was if he truly wanted someone to brag to though any such bragging would look pretty pathetic to Collins upon his conviction.
Strange? Since apparently practically told her in so many words that he did it. You question would make more sense if you had asked, "Why wouldn't he?".

Offline lookout

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 Jan,,it was mostly done by the relatives. It was they who took over the case after EP declared it a murder/suicide. How on earth they were allowed to interfere like they did,Lord only knows. Weren't they chased out of court as well as " Taff " Jones having shown them the door to his office ?

Offline mike tesko

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How did the red paint from the aga surround get onto the flat surface of the silencers (SJ/1) end cap near to the aperture?This paint stain can be clearly seen in the photographs taken by Ron Cook when he dismantled the silencer found by relatives - afterwards, Cook arranged for the silencer in question to be handed back to the family...
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:46:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Strange? Since apparently practically told her in so many words that he did it. You question would make more sense if you had asked, "Why wouldn't he?".

As you readily admit he didn't tell her that he did it outright.  Thus there owuld be no reaosn tot ell her about the moderator.  My question of why would he tell her is fully appropriate.  There is no reason to mention anything about the moderator unless one admits they did it and decides to recount every last detail about how it was carried out.  He clearly did not do such.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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it does because there is a statement from one of the family which mentioning "returning" the silencer to the police. Others have explained it by saying all the contents of the house were handed to them, so thats what it meant. But your explanation makes more sense.

It makes no sense at all to someone who looks in detail at his claims.  His claims are contradictory, make no sense, keep changing and have no evidentiary supprt at all.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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I also think it is important to keep the fact that some of this "investigation" was actually done by the police and not an "independent" lab. Probably not something that would happen today .

It depends on the size of the station. Independent labs are used when the station lacks the resources itself or are overwhelmed, there can be a backlog of evidence that needs processing.  The TV shows which feature evidence being tested the same day as the crime are pure fantasy.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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 Laboratory tests are done the same day if requested.

Offline scipio_usmc

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The suggestion that there was only ever just one silencer, with all these different exhibit refences of SBJ/1, SJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1, is outrageous, preposterous and dishonest, and the morons who think this is the true explanation need thier heads seeing to.

If you want to get into namecalling that is exactly how people see you, dishonest and with a screw loose. 

There is not one shred of evidence of a second moderator.  Your claim that there was a moderator marked SJ/1 is likewise not supported by any evidence whatsoever, makes no sense at all from the standpoint of the SJ prefix being used and seems to be something made up because minute by minute you change when this designation was assiged and to which moderator it was assigned. 

You said SJ/1 was assigned to a moderator collected by Stanley Jones on August 7, 1985 even though he left WHF before evidence was collected and spent the day at Goldhanger interviewing people. You further insisted that in September police had SJ/1 in their possession while SBJ/1 was in the lab.

Next you contradicted yourself claiming the police found nothing on SJ/1 and gave it to the extended family.  I pointed out that since you alleged SJ/1 came from WHF they would have no basis to give it to the extended family it could only be returned to Jeremy. I also pointed out that this contradicted your claim police had it while the other was in the lab.   

You promptly changed to claiming SJ/1 was the moderator collected from Boutflour and asserted SBJ/1 was a suppressor collected by police directly from WHF.  You also came up with a new claim that the family gave the silencer back to police so that your original claim coudl seem true.

The way you keep changing claims demonstrates you are just making things up.  This is corroborated by your inability to provide any satisfactory explanation for your claims and more significantly inability to produce any evidence to substantiate them.

You have zilch to establish how Stanley Jones would have been in a position to collect any evidence on 8/7/85.  Zilch to establish tha the actually did collect anything.  Zilch to establish the SJ/1 prefix was used at all in the case.  Zilch as far as a reason SJ/1 would have been used. 

On the flip side police have provided documentary and testimonial evidence to explain how items collected by Stanley Jones from the relatives were labeled with the SBJ prefix such as the moderator SBJ/1, the scope SBJ/2 and box SBJ/3.  There is documentary and testimonial evidence establhsing the SBJ prefix for these items was changed to DB upon learning they were found by Boutflour and changed again to DRB because prefix DB was already being used by the photographer. This not only makes perfect sense it is supported by the documents.

Your claims make no sense, are not supported at all and keep changing with the wind. 

These morons have no sense of logic, they have no explanation for why DSJones took possession of one of the two key silencers (SBJ/1) from the scene on 7th August 1985, three full days before the relatives found the other key silencer at the farmhouse.


You have produced no evidence at all that he did.  You keep ignoring that he was tasked with interviewing people not collecting physical evidence on the day in question.  Much like you invented the SJ/1 designation out of thin air so too have you apparently made up a moderator being collected on 8/7/85.


They have no answer to account for how the same silencer could have been kept in two different places by different people, since the relatives silencer (SJ/1) remained in Ron Cooks personal possession for a total of 17 days, carried about in his pockets all the while between 13th and 30th August 1985, whilst the other key silencer (SBJ/1) was being used as a paper weight on DCI 'Taff' Jones desk at Witham police station until 30th August 1985, at which stage PC Whiddon took possession of it and arranged for it to be sent to the lab' that same date (30th August) inside which the critical loose flake was eventually found on 11th September 1985...

There is no evidence at all it was in 2 different places at different times.  The claim it was being used as a paper weight on Taff Jones desk for a month is not supported by any credible evidence.  Nor do you have any credible evidence it was in possession of police in a different location when when it was tested at the lab.  Cook brought it to the blab and was there as lab personnel tested it, it remained in his charge even as they tested it which is how it was in police custody at the same time it was at the blab. He was there at the lab with it.  That doesn't make it in 2 different places it just means it was not relinquished from police custody to control of the lab.

Whilst the loose flake was being found in silencer DB/1 at the lab' on 11th September, Ann Eaton still had possession of the other key silencer (SJ/1) in her possession at home and it only got recollected from her later on, on 11th September 1985. Even then, the silencer given to police by Ann Eaton on 11th September was retained by Essex police, fingerprinted by DS Davidson and DS Eastwood on 13th September 1985, and not sent to the lab' by police to be checked for blood and fibers until 20th September 1985, so how could police still have the silencer until 29th September and it already being at the lab' from as long ago as 30th August, inside which the critical loose flake had already been found and analysed whilst police still had possession of the silencer the blood was supposedly found inside it elsewhere...

Why send a silencer to the lab' on 20th September 1985, to be checked for blood, if blood had already been found inside it, and the silencer had been checked for blood...

These claims about Eaton handing over a moderator in Spetember 1985 are likewise fairytale inventions from you without any support whatsoever that make no sense at all.

It is anyone who believes the tales you are peddling that have problems and need their head checked.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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It makes no sense at all to someone who looks in detail at his claims.  His claims are contradictory, make no sense, keep changing and have no evidentiary supprt at all.

that is not entirely accurate - the changes in the exhibit numbers is supported by documentary evidence as is the fact that the police made changes without consulting some of the technicians and they were not happy that they were not made aware of the changes in numbering .

Offline Alias

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scipio: "If you want to get into namecalling that is exactly how people see you, dishonest and with a screw loose."

Like you?

Offline scipio_usmc

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scipio: "If you want to get into namecalling that is exactly how people see you, dishonest and with a screw loose."

Like you?

Who sees me in that light?  Not a sizable number and certainly not anyone who matters that is for sure.  Someone trying to prove it would not get very far.  Are you still mad that your completely idiotic suggestions always get smacked down?  I'm not the only one who dismissed your absurd suggestions that Jeremy can't have done it because he would be too scared of barking dogs ruining it or your ridiculous claim Sheila sat on the bed leaning over and fell on the floor upon being shot(which would not result in blood dripping down her shoulder and arms but instead down to the floor).

   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Who sees me in that light?  Not a sizable number and certainly not anyone who matters that is for sure.  Someone trying to prove it would not get very far.  Are you still mad that your completely idiotic suggestions always get smacked down?  I'm not the only one who dismissed your absurd suggestions that Jeremy can't have done it because he would be too scared of barking dogs ruining it or your ridiculous claim Sheila sat on the bed leaning over and fell on the floor upon being shot(which would not result in blood dripping down her shoulder and arms but instead down to the floor).

 


Cool it ! you were the one who got personal first . A man (?) of your intelligence surely is capable of making an argument without personal digs , it is entirely unnecessary . We all love Alias so back off. >:(

If you don't like someone posts then just counter argue - at least Alias is posting questions and will listen to replies and consider . Unlike some who post their ideas and opinions as FACTS. There is a big difference.