The last ultimate test of gun, to prove sound moderator was not used in shooting

[scipio_usmc]

More useful images:-

As the one image indicates depending on the area of the bullet that is scraped some parts will have a more narrow impression than others because the grooves and lands twist around the barrel. 

Since the bullets get deformed upon impact some parts that had the riflings impressions break into tiny fragments and the impression is lost.  Likewise because of expansion the impression can be lost.

The bullets did not demonstrate that some were fired from a gun with wide grooves and others fired by a gun with narrow grooves.  He took a reference point of where the land left a narrow impression and tried comparing all the bullets to that reference point.  Some exhibited the same characteristics, others failed to exhibit these same characteristics but that doesn't mean they exhibited wide lands instead.  The bullets were also compared to see it they shared  individual rifling marks unique to the Bamber Anschutz that no other weapon not even another Anschutz would exhibit.  Some exibited the makrs others did not.  Failing to exhibit the marks doesn't mean a different gun necessarily fired the bullets. These individual characteristics are disturbed by bullets expanding and fragmenting so will not necessarily be found.  If they are found it proves they definitely were fired by the gun in question.  If not found it is possible they were fired but not proven they were.   

The safest way to know if the same weapon was used is to examine the casings.  The marks on the casings indicate they were all fired from the murder weapon.  It is not possible for 2 different weapons to have been used.

You have failed to consult a firearms expert but instead are repating nonsense from a biased author who set out to assert Jeremy was innocent and did so through distortion and ignorance in combination.  He likewise failed to use any firearms experts for his claims.

If your claims were actually true then it is impossible Sheila killed herself.  Your claims are that 2 different guns were used to shoot her.  For that matter you are claiming 2 different guns were used to shoot Nevill, June and the boys as well because someone bullets in each victim were listed as having narrow lands while others lacked such characteristics.

This would tremendously hurt Jeremy because it would suggest 2 killers firing at each victim together or Jeremy using 2 guns.  Sheila can't have used 2 guns and then hid the other.

If these claims were true then it would tend to suggest Jeremy had an accomplice and implicate him even more not less.

     

[mike tesko]

June fired one of the guns, Sheila fired the gun, and police fired shots, one across neck and other later on  under Sheila's chin...

[scipio_usmc]

June fired one of the guns, Sheila fired the gun, and police fired shots, one across neck and other later on  under Sheila's chin...

Ludicrous!

Good luck finding any evidence to establish this because you need airtight proof to get anyone rational to buy this.

The supposed tests being done could not prove any of these things happened.

[scipio_usmc]

Sorry, charlie boy, same rifle could not possibly have fired all 25 rounds used in the killing of three generations of the same family...

Based on what evidence?

All analysis to date by Jeremy supporters has been pure BS.

I have seen a variety of claims that non-Eley ammunition was used in 5 rounds, another supporter claims 7 rounds, some call them lighter others heavy.  The only thing consistent in these claims is no evidentiary support is presented for the claims to estbalish there was any non-Eley ammunition used.  There are 2 ways to establish such:

1) testing the chmical composition and finding it totally different from Eley's formula

2) from the shell casings

The latter is the most obvious and easiest manner.

The misrepresentations about the bullet characteristics that match the Anschutz are legion.

Fletcher observed 3 main features that tied the bullets to the murder weapon:

1) 8 L&G
2) narrow lands meaning the grooves are wider than the lands
3) rifling marks that are made by imperfections unique to the barrel of the Anschutz and no other weapon- these are called individual or accidental characteristics while the first 2 are class characteristics

Which bullets suffered the least damage and were most intact?  The 3 bullets that exited June and bullet that exited Daniel.  These bullets had all 3 of the characteristics above present. PV/29 in Daniel also had all 3 of these present according to Jeremy supprters.

A bullet is round and you can roughly look at 120-150 degrees at any given time.  Looking at 120 degrees at a time you can get 3 views that cover everything.   

Many bullets fragmented and expanded and the outside parts that broke off were the parts that had the impressions from the lands and grooves. When that happens you might only have a small section that still has any impression remaining from the lands and grooves and/or the unique rifling marks. 

Even if there are not 8 lands and grooves you still could be able to potentially match the lands and grooves remaining and the accidental marks to a particular cross section of a test bullet and this match enables you to say it was fired by the same weapon even though you don't have an entire bullet.

A bullet that is damaged too much and can't definitely be tied to the gun coudl still potentially have been fired by it.  The only way to rule it out as having been fired is if it has characteristics that demonstrate it was defintiely fired by a different gun.

I have yet to see reliable documents that for sure came from Fletcher that account for all the claims made by Jeremy supporters about what exactly what was observed on each and every bullet.

For instance, the Holab form for PV/2 indicates "general and small amount of detail" match from the Anschutz. General means class characteristics and the detail part refers to the accidental characteristics.  The accidental characteristics is what RM refers to. Yet numerous charts and posts say no RM for PV/2. 

The claim that Fletcher noted some bullets had wide lands has not been demonstrated at all. Rather where narrow lands were not found because insufficent detail was on the bullet has been misrepresented by Jeremy supporters as Fletcher finding wide lands, though the reality is not being able to make an effective measurement so unable to determine the measurement of the lands.

The first Holab form I looked at is PV/8 which is hard to read but looks like it says same L&G width as the Anschutz but too damaged and small to match.

This is what I have pieced together from the claims of Jeremy supporters without correcting anything so there may be more errors thant the 2 I mentioned above, indeed it is impossible to detect 0 lands and yet claim narrow lands were detected so there was a typo somewhere or someone a mistake in reading something:


Master Bedroom

Nevill
PV/2  (Shoulder) (5L) (NL) (no RM)
PV/5 (jaw) fragment broken from either PV10 or PV11
PV/10 (lip)           (WL) (no RM)
PV/11 (neck) (4L) (WL) (no RM)
Arm/chest Graze wound-1 of the following: DRH/5, 9, 15, or 35  (all 8 L&G) (NL) (RM)   

June
PV/23 ( 0 )(NL) (no RM)
PV/24 (4L) (NL) (has RM)
PV/25 (5L) (NL) (has RM)
PV/26 (5L) (NL) (no RM)
3 of the following DRH/5, 9, 15, or 35 (all 8 L&G) (NL) (RM)   

Sheila
PV/19 (WL) (no RM)
PV/20 (NL) (RM)

Kitchen

Nevill
PV/3 (skull) (NL)
PV/4 (skull) (NL) (RM)
PV/8 (skull) (WL)
PV/9 (skull) (?)

Twins

Daniel
PV/29 (8 L&G) (NL) (RM)
PV/34 (WL)
PV/35 (WL)
PV/36 (WL)
DRH/36 (8 L&G) (NL) (RM)

Nicholas
PV/30 (3L) (NL)
PV/31 (NL) (RM)
[bullet 3 fragmented into small parts in the head and was not recovered]

The wide/narrow lands claims are fiction but at any rate if one wants to claim that the bullets that failed to register narrow lands were fired from a different gun that means Nevill was shot with 2 guns in both rooms he was shot in,that  both boys were shot with 2 guns and Sheila was shot with 2 guns. The yellow represents the shots claimed to be from other guns. 

In the meantime the shots in both boys and 4 in Nevill's head were tightly grouped and assessed to have been fired in rapid succession from the same gun.  2 people firing together are unlikely to get a nice tight grouping.     

I wonder how many other errors I will find in the above claims anyway with respect to number of lands and grooves found, whether the land width matched the Anschutz and whether the individual barrel characteristics were found.

Again though the fact a bullet lacks enough detail doesn't prove it wasn't fired from the Anschutz it merely means there is insufficient detail to say it was eefinitely fired from the Anschutz and other evidence like the spent casings will have to carry the day.


 

[mike tesko]

Tests on the end of the inner barrel of the anshuzt rifle will establish whether or not when Sheila Caffell was shot and killed by the shot under the chin, the silencer was fitted to the gun or not...

Sheila only had one bullet wound on her neck when the police surgeon confirmed her as being dead at 8.44am, a fact confirmed by PI 'Bob' Miller who escorted him around the farmhouse to view the bodies of the five victims. Let us get the facts right, when Ewen Smith was representing Jeremy in 2003/ 2004 he went to see Dr Craig who confirmed to him that when he viewed Sheila she only had a solitary wound on her throat, and that her body was on the bed, not the floor. Now, this is very significant, because at the time Ewen Smith paid this visit to see Craig, the photograph showing two bullet wounds with fresh looking blood running, leaking and pouring from the two wounds was shown to Dr Craig and he told Ewen Smith that she only had one of these wounds on her neck when he saw her body at 8.44am...

Ewen Smith is now a CCRC Commissioner, and because of his association with Jeremy he is prevented from intervening in any decision about whether or not to refer the case back to the court of appeal...

[mike tesko]

With this in mind, it could not have been Jeremy who fired the second shot beneath the chin, after Dr Craig confirmed Sheila as being dead on the bed at 8.44am, with this in mind, who killed Sheila - it wasn't Jeremy that's for sure...

[scipio_usmc]

Tests on the end of the inner barrel of the anshuzt rifle will establish whether or not when Sheila Caffell was shot and killed by the shot under the chin, the silencer was fitted to the gun or not...

Sheila only had one bullet wound on her neck when the police surgeon confirmed her as being dead at 8.44am, a fact confirmed by PI 'Bob' Miller who escorted him around the farmhouse to view the bodies of the five victims. Let us get the facts right, when Ewen Smith was representing Jeremy in 2003/ 2004 he went to see Dr Craig who confirmed to him that when he viewed Sheila she only had a solitary wound on her throat, and that her body was on the bed, not the floor. Now, this is very significant, because at the time Ewen Smith paid this visit to see Craig, the photograph showing two bullet wounds with fresh looking blood running, leaking and pouring from the two wounds was shown to Dr Craig and he told Ewen Smith that she only had one of these wounds on her neck when he saw her body at 8.44am...

Ewen Smith is now a CCRC Commissioner, and because of his association with Jeremy he is prevented from intervening in any decision about whether or not to refer the case back to the court of appeal...

Whether Craig actually made these claims or not has never been substantiated but at the time he is alleged to have made these statements he was not of sound mind and mentally unfit to testify to anything.

The physical evidence doesn't match these alleged claims and they conflict directly with all his official statements made in connenction witht he case. 

If he did claim these things it was simply the ramblings of a mad man.

As for the supposed tests of the rifle, are you suggesting that when Sheila's blood is not found that you will accept she was murdered by Jeremy?

"Tests on the end of the inner barrel of the anshuzt rifle will establish whether or not when Sheila Caffell was shot and killed by the shot under the chin, the silencer was fitted to the gun or not"

Based on the above when they find none of Sheila's blood it means they will determine that the suppressor was attached afterall.  I don't believe you will stop asserting Jeremy is innocent if that happens though.

 

[mike tesko]

'Cyclops' reviewers noticed that at the time photographs which have been disclosed showed two bullet wounds (not one) on Sheila's neck, that the anshuzt rifle by that stage was photographed in different positions upon her body, and that at this stage (after 10am) there was no sound moderator fitted to the guns barrel...

They reasoned that if what the police surgeon, Dr Craig had said in his witness statements, to the effect that Sheila had only a solitary wound upon her neck at 8.44am, and that by say around 10 O'clock that same morning the rifle was photographed upon her body at a time she now had two bullet wounds, with no silencer attached to the end of the rifles body...

If a silencer was fitted to the gun barrel at the time Sheila was shot under the chin and killed, then police must have been responsible for shooting her under the chin, and removing the silencer before the collection of photographs showing the second shot to the neck, and the rifle on the body minus a silencer were taken...

One of the reviewers (Jake) went so far as to suggest that if this was true, he says it means that even if the blood in the sound moderator belonged to, or originated from Sheila, It suggests that police used the anshuzt rifle to shoot Sheila beneath the chin, but that they removed the silencer from the gun, before police restaged Sheila's body on the floor by the edge of the bed - another Reviewer, (Mary), goes further, and suggests that the silencer recovered from the scene by the late DS 'Stan' Jones, (SBJ/1) on 7th August 1985, was the silencer in question, which was sent to the lab' on 30th August 1985, under exhibit reference, DB/1, Lab' item 23, inside which the crucial loose flake was found later on (by Fletcher)...

[mike tesko]

Reviewers, Simon, Claire and Phillip, have asked me to point out to everyone, that it is a clear established fact that two different key  sound moderators lay at the heart of this conviction, one recovered by DS Jones at the scene on 7th August 1985, and the other found at the scene by relatives, on 10th August 1985, both silencers sent to the lab' at different times of the investigation and eventually merged into the same one...

Claire says, "the COLP investigators who carried out the 1991 / 1992 investigation, confirmed in police interviews of Essex police officers, the existence of the second silencer"...

[scipio_usmc]

Reviewers, Simon, Claire and Phillip, have asked me to point out to everyone, that it is a clear established fact that two different key  sound moderators lay at the heart of this conviction, one recovered by DS Jones at the scene on 7th August 1985, and the other found at the scene by relatives, on 10th August 1985, both silencers sent to the lab' at different times of the investigation and eventually merged into the sane one...

Claire says, the COLP investigators who carried out the 1991 / 1982 investigation, confirmed in police interviews of Essex police officers, the existence of the second silencer...

They are full of crap if they do claim such.

It would make no sense at all for police to plant evidence on 2 different suppressors simultaneously. 

Moreover, the supposed evidence meant to prove this has turned out to be little more than BS like taking forms that were revised and misrepresenting that such revised forms were created at the same time as the originals so the originals and revisions are both actually originals and each refers to a different supporessor.

These claims are absurd and clearly rendered in bath faith by intnetionally distorting to try to pretend they are true. 

[mike tesko]

Based on information currently being reviewed by reviewers of case facts, even if blood found in one of the silencers did belong to, or originate directly from Sheila Caffell when she got shot beneath the chin, it is not fatal to Bamber being the killer, because Essex police have sought to deliberately suppress the possible use of one of the two key silencers on the barrel of the gun when Sheila was shot beneath the chin after 8.44am...

[mike tesko]

Based on information currently being reviewed by reviewers of case facts, even if blood found in one of the silencers did belong to, or originate directly from Sheila Caffell when she got shot beneath the chin, it is not fatal to Bamber being the killer, because Essex police have sought to deliberately suppress the possible use of one of the two key silencers on the barrel of the gun when Sheila was shot beneath the chin after 8.44am...

Claire confirms, "the COLP investigators acknowleged the existence of the second sound moderator as part of the ongoing investigations" (1985 / 1986)...

[mike tesko]

Why would the COLP investigators mention the existence of a second key silencer which was in the possession of Essex police, if all along there was only ever one silencer with all these different exhibit references, of SBJ/1, SJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1...

[scipio_usmc]

'Cyclops' reviewers noticed that at the time photographs which have been disclosed showed two bullet wounds (not one) on Sheila's neck, that the anshuzt rifle by that stage was photographed in different positions upon her body, and that at this stage (after 10am) there was no sound moderator fitted to the guns barrel...

They reasoned that if what the police surgeon, Dr Craig had said in his witness statements, to the effect that Sheila had only a solitary wound upon her neck at 8.44am, and that by say around 10 O'clock that same morning the rifle was photographed upon her body at a time she now had two bullet wounds, with no silencer attached to the end of the rifles body...

If a silencer was fitted to the gun barrel at the time Sheila was shot under the chin and killed, then police must have been responsible for shooting her under the chin, and removing the silencer before the collection of photographs showing the second shot to the neck, and the rifle on the body minus a silencer were taken...

One of the reviewers (Jake) went so far as to suggest that if this was true, he says it means that even if the blood in the sound moderator belonged to, or originated from Sheila, It suggests that police used the anshuzt rifle to shoot Sheila beneath the chin, but that they removed the silencer from the gun, before police restaged Sheila's body on the floor by the edge of the bed - another Reviewer, (Mary), goes further, and suggests that the silencer recovered from the scene by the late DS 'Stan' Jones, (SBJ/1) on 7th August 1985, was the silencer in question, which was sent to the lab' on 30th August 1985, under exhibit reference, DB/1, Lab' item 23, inside which the crucial loose flake was found later on (by Fletcher)...

There is no reason at all to believe that Sheila had only 1 wound.  If she received only the first wound and died from that wound then she would have died from bleeding out.  That would have taken a while and would have resulted in her bleeding far more than she did.  The pathologist determined the second shot was delivered within seconds of the first shot because otherwise she would have bled more.  If the shots were delivered hours apart then for sure she would have bled alot more. 

The alleged reviewers are operating from an absurd position that holds no water at all.  The claim she could have been shot the second time hours later than the first many hours after she was dead is impossible.

Moreover, the claim police would attach the suppressor and shoot her a second time well after she died makes zero sense.  Why would police do such?  police were content with blaming Sheila at the time so who would shoot her with the suppressor? 

If these reviewers actually exists and are claiming what they are then they should be sure to make sure they never reveal their last names because they deserve to be endlessly mocked as either intentional liars or complete buffoons.

[mike tesko]

Sheila only had one wound on her neck at 8.44am, when the police surgeon, Dr Craig, confirmed her as being laid on the bed...

Photographic evidence exists to confirm this to be true...

To be specific, different photographs were taken at different times that morning which show only one bullet wound on Sheila's neck, and later, two bullet wounds on her neck...

Make what you will for now of this limited insight into the photographic evidence which was taken by the police themselves as part of an internal police investigation into the actual cause of Sheila Caffells death - police shot and killed her, she did not kill herself, and Jeremy did not shoot and kill her...