Unidentified Male, seen at Whf, PC Myall, at 3.45am...

[mike tesko]

It's a real shame, cos there are some arguable points that the defence could really go with.

I honestly believe that many of those on here falling loosely into the JB did it camp DO try and give the defence some leeway and a decent crack of the whip to present a case.
It doesn't appear to be reciprocated though.

The seeming onslaught of technobabble for defence is easily eroded when people scrutinise it. The defence (in my opinion) has won over a few numpties who read the headlines and think "OMG, they have a call log from Nevill, so he must be innocent". If they'd spend 20 more minutes reading more they might not think JB did it, but they sure as hell wouldn't think the defence evidence was rock solid.

There's footage of Bamber walking into court where he's grinning like a Cheshire cat. I know this doesn't make him guilty, but it really does support the view he thought he was untouchable and lost touch with reality.
I don't recall the Guildford four smiling about matters.

I agree. The red herrings and clutched straws are mounting up, and the goal posts have been moved so often that they're almost off the pitch.

I read that headline about the alleged phone call from Nevill, and I was really very interested - until I looked at the log and saw that it didn't prove anything of the sort. I was interested in the photo of the gun at the window until I considered that maybe the photo had been taken after it was taken off Sheila's body - which had to happen at some point otherwise it would still be there.

----------------------

Only, the photograph of the gun at the bedroom window, was taken at about 10 O'clock, and according to PS Woodcock (firearms officer) he did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body, until 11:15am, to make it safe?

So, you can speculate all you want to, if PS Woodcock did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body until 11:15am, it could not also be photographed leaning up against the bedroom window beforehand...

The only people who are responsible for moving the goalposts are EP, and the DPP / CPS, and the relatives...

Well obviously someone got their times mixed up. That's not exactly unusual is it?

----------------------

Yes, they got their times mixed up alright, and it will be their undoing...

CA7 and its occupants were at the scene by 3:38am, not 3:48am...

PC Myall could not have made his report about the unidentified male he saw at the scene at 3:45am, if he and the other police officers (Bews and Saxby) were not already there at the scene before 3:45am...

Its simple...

What this means, is that the reference to the arrival at the scene of CA7 at 3:48am, is incorrect, by ten minutes...

This means that there is a very good likelihood that all the other timed references which form part of the Bonnet log, were also out of synchronization by the same ten minutes...

If PC Myall made the sighting he made at 3:45am, there is no other alternative ex[pl;nation other than to accept that CA7 and its occupants, and JB, all arrived there at the scene, ten minutes before the times allotted to those events...

Here is evidence, that Bonnets log and timed events was out of synchronization by the same ten minutes that PC West sought to rely upon when suggesting that JB's call had been received by him at 3:26am, not 3:36am?

This suggests in the strongest possible terms, that the timings in the Bonnet logs, and PC West's log, were all wrong, and needed to be adjusted by the same ten minute adjustment principle...

[mike tesko]

PC Myall wasn't even at the house at 3.45.

-------------------------

Oh, yes he was...

Oh no he wasn't ...

----

Oh yes he was, and he shouldn't be making notes about being there at that time, and claiming to have seen an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, if he was not there...

Funny how only PS Bews says they saw a silhouetted figure at the bedroom window that he claims was a trick of light (depending upon which version he is telling) or the moon reflecting upon the glass of the bedroom window...

How come, both PC Myall and PS Bews, do not say the same thing?

Myall, Bews, and Bamber were in the grounds at whf by 3:45am - its a nailed on certainty...

The unidentified male who PC Myall did see at whf at 3:45am, gives JB the perfect alibi - because at the time of the sighting of that male person at the bedroom window, JB was outside in the company of Bews and Myall...

These are the FACTS...

It's all there in the MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT which EP created and produced to help them identify who the male person that had been seen inside whf, at 3:45am, could have been? They know it was not JB because he was outside in the grounds of the house with the police, so it had to be either Ralph Bamber, or another male person...

This sighting was part of the reason why EP seized JB's answer phone, and why they arrested Mathew McDonald, on suspicion of him being the hitman, who may have been seen inside the bedroom window by PC Myall at about 3:45am...

Please post a document written by PC Myall which says that he saw a male person at a window at 3.45 am, otherwise I have no choice but to conclude that you made all that up.

-----------------------

I am afraid the only person making anything up, is you...

[Kaldin]

It's a real shame, cos there are some arguable points that the defence could really go with.

I honestly believe that many of those on here falling loosely into the JB did it camp DO try and give the defence some leeway and a decent crack of the whip to present a case.
It doesn't appear to be reciprocated though.

The seeming onslaught of technobabble for defence is easily eroded when people scrutinise it. The defence (in my opinion) has won over a few numpties who read the headlines and think "OMG, they have a call log from Nevill, so he must be innocent". If they'd spend 20 more minutes reading more they might not think JB did it, but they sure as hell wouldn't think the defence evidence was rock solid.

There's footage of Bamber walking into court where he's grinning like a Cheshire cat. I know this doesn't make him guilty, but it really does support the view he thought he was untouchable and lost touch with reality.
I don't recall the Guildford four smiling about matters.

I agree. The red herrings and clutched straws are mounting up, and the goal posts have been moved so often that they're almost off the pitch.

I read that headline about the alleged phone call from Nevill, and I was really very interested - until I looked at the log and saw that it didn't prove anything of the sort. I was interested in the photo of the gun at the window until I considered that maybe the photo had been taken after it was taken off Sheila's body - which had to happen at some point otherwise it would still be there.

----------------------

Only, the photograph of the gun at the bedroom window, was taken at about 10 O'clock, and according to PS Woodcock (firearms officer) he did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body, until 11:15am, to make it safe?

So, you can speculate all you want to, if PS Woodcock did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body until 11:15am, it could not also be photographed leaning up against the bedroom window beforehand...

The only people who are responsible for moving the goalposts are EP, and the DPP / CPS, and the relatives...

Well obviously someone got their times mixed up. That's not exactly unusual is it?

----------------------

Yes, they got their times mixed up alright, and it will be their undoing...

CA7 and its occupants were at the scene by 3:38am, not 3:48am...

PC Myall could not have made his report about the unidentified male he saw at the scene at 3:45am, if he and the other police officers (Bews and Saxby) were not already there at the scene before 3:45am...

Its simple...

What this means, is that the reference to the arrival at the scene of CA7 at 3:48am, is incorrect, by ten minutes...

This means that there is a very good likelihood that all the other timed references which form part of the Bonnet log, were also out of synchronization by the same ten minutes...

If PC Myall made the sighting he made at 3:45am, there is no other alternative ex[pl;nation other than to accept that CA7 and its occupants, and JB, all arrived there at the scene, ten minutes before the times allotted to those events...

Here is evidence, that Bonnets log and timed events was out of synchronization by the same ten minutes that PC West sought to rely upon when suggesting that JB's call had been received by him at 3:26am, not 3:36am?

This suggests in the strongest possible terms, that the timings in the Bonnet logs, and PC West's log, were all wrong, and needed to be adjusted by the same ten minute adjustment principle...

So now Malcolm Bonnet is also lying according to you. Any more liars out there?

[Kaldin]

PC Myall wasn't even at the house at 3.45.

-------------------------

Oh, yes he was...

Oh no he wasn't ...

----

Oh yes he was, and he shouldn't be making notes about being there at that time, and claiming to have seen an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, if he was not there...

Funny how only PS Bews says they saw a silhouetted figure at the bedroom window that he claims was a trick of light (depending upon which version he is telling) or the moon reflecting upon the glass of the bedroom window...

How come, both PC Myall and PS Bews, do not say the same thing?

Myall, Bews, and Bamber were in the grounds at whf by 3:45am - its a nailed on certainty...

The unidentified male who PC Myall did see at whf at 3:45am, gives JB the perfect alibi - because at the time of the sighting of that male person at the bedroom window, JB was outside in the company of Bews and Myall...

These are the FACTS...

It's all there in the MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT which EP created and produced to help them identify who the male person that had been seen inside whf, at 3:45am, could have been? They know it was not JB because he was outside in the grounds of the house with the police, so it had to be either Ralph Bamber, or another male person...

This sighting was part of the reason why EP seized JB's answer phone, and why they arrested Mathew McDonald, on suspicion of him being the hitman, who may have been seen inside the bedroom window by PC Myall at about 3:45am...

Please post a document written by PC Myall which says that he saw a male person at a window at 3.45 am, otherwise I have no choice but to conclude that you made all that up.

-----------------------

I am afraid the only person making anything up, is you...

You don't have that document then. I thought not.

I'm getting mightily tired of the bullshit on this forum ...

[mike tesko]

And so, here we have it, the cat is out of the bag - an official EP document which confirms that PC Myall, saw an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, on the morning of 7th August 1985. Here at last, is proof positive, that the police did see a person at the bedroom window, not only a person, or as the case may be, a trick of light, or the moon reflecting on the glass of the bedroom window (Bews) but whatever they saw, PC Myall saw enough of the figure to warrant a report being made by him, inwhich he describes the figure as an unidentified male person...

An UNIDENTIFIED MALE PERSON?

imagine that...

So much weight was placed upon this sighting made by PC Myall, that EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was, or could have been?

Hence, one of the reasons why they seized the answer phone and the audio tapes from JB's cottage...

[Kaldin]

And so, here we have it, the cat is out of the bag - an official EP document which confirms that PC Myall, saw an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, on the morning of 7th August 1985. Here at last, is proof positive, that the police did see a person at the bedroom window, not only a person, or as the case may be, a trick of light, or the moon reflecting on the glass of the bedroom window (Bews) but whatever they saw, PC Myall saw enough of the figure to warrant a report being made by him, inwhich he describes the figure as an unidentified male person...

An UNIDENTIFIED MALE PERSON?

imagine that...

So much weight was placed upon this sighting made by PC Myall, that EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was, or could have been?

Hence, one of the reasons why they seized the answer phone and the audio tapes from JB's cottage...

Still waiting for that proof.

[mike tesko]

It's a real shame, cos there are some arguable points that the defence could really go with.

I honestly believe that many of those on here falling loosely into the JB did it camp DO try and give the defence some leeway and a decent crack of the whip to present a case.
It doesn't appear to be reciprocated though.

The seeming onslaught of technobabble for defence is easily eroded when people scrutinise it. The defence (in my opinion) has won over a few numpties who read the headlines and think "OMG, they have a call log from Nevill, so he must be innocent". If they'd spend 20 more minutes reading more they might not think JB did it, but they sure as hell wouldn't think the defence evidence was rock solid.

There's footage of Bamber walking into court where he's grinning like a Cheshire cat. I know this doesn't make him guilty, but it really does support the view he thought he was untouchable and lost touch with reality.
I don't recall the Guildford four smiling about matters.

I agree. The red herrings and clutched straws are mounting up, and the goal posts have been moved so often that they're almost off the pitch.

I read that headline about the alleged phone call from Nevill, and I was really very interested - until I looked at the log and saw that it didn't prove anything of the sort. I was interested in the photo of the gun at the window until I considered that maybe the photo had been taken after it was taken off Sheila's body - which had to happen at some point otherwise it would still be there.

----------------------

Only, the photograph of the gun at the bedroom window, was taken at about 10 O'clock, and according to PS Woodcock (firearms officer) he did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body, until 11:15am, to make it safe?

So, you can speculate all you want to, if PS Woodcock did not remove the rifle from Sheila's body until 11:15am, it could not also be photographed leaning up against the bedroom window beforehand...

The only people who are responsible for moving the goalposts are EP, and the DPP / CPS, and the relatives...

Well obviously someone got their times mixed up. That's not exactly unusual is it?

----------------------

Yes, they got their times mixed up alright, and it will be their undoing...

CA7 and its occupants were at the scene by 3:38am, not 3:48am...

PC Myall could not have made his report about the unidentified male he saw at the scene at 3:45am, if he and the other police officers (Bews and Saxby) were not already there at the scene before 3:45am...

Its simple...

What this means, is that the reference to the arrival at the scene of CA7 at 3:48am, is incorrect, by ten minutes...

This means that there is a very good likelihood that all the other timed references which form part of the Bonnet log, were also out of synchronization by the same ten minutes...

If PC Myall made the sighting he made at 3:45am, there is no other alternative ex[pl;nation other than to accept that CA7 and its occupants, and JB, all arrived there at the scene, ten minutes before the times allotted to those events...

Here is evidence, that Bonnets log and timed events was out of synchronization by the same ten minutes that PC West sought to rely upon when suggesting that JB's call had been received by him at 3:26am, not 3:36am?

This suggests in the strongest possible terms, that the timings in the Bonnet logs, and PC West's log, were all wrong, and needed to be adjusted by the same ten minute adjustment principle...

So now Malcolm Bonnet is also lying according to you. Any more liars out there?

-------------------

Stop using that pathetic excuse every time you don't have an answer...

Get used to it, police do tell lies and they do fabricate evidence...

[Kaldin]

So the police were so convinced that there was a "hitman" in the house that they told everyone that Sheila killed them all and then herself. Yeah, right ....

[mike tesko]

And so, here we have it, the cat is out of the bag - an official EP document which confirms that PC Myall, saw an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, on the morning of 7th August 1985. Here at last, is proof positive, that the police did see a person at the bedroom window, not only a person, or as the case may be, a trick of light, or the moon reflecting on the glass of the bedroom window (Bews) but whatever they saw, PC Myall saw enough of the figure to warrant a report being made by him, inwhich he describes the figure as an unidentified male person...

An UNIDENTIFIED MALE PERSON?

imagine that...

So much weight was placed upon this sighting made by PC Myall, that EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was, or could have been?

Hence, one of the reasons why they seized the answer phone and the audio tapes from JB's cottage...

Still waiting for that proof.

-------------------------

Keep waiting, and keep relying on those pathetic excuses that you keep coming up with...

[mike tesko]

So the police were so convinced that there was a "hitman" in the house that they told everyone that Sheila killed them all and then herself. Yeah, right ....

----------------------

You are getting more and more pathetic by the moment...

[mike tesko]

In my opinion, the shotgun approach in denying everything that has been presented and only using cherry picked snippets which could be useful will not do Jeremy any favours in the long run. Any credibility that exists will be / is being eroded / diminished.

Is anyone willing/feel able to offer a step by step walkthrough of the current defence position - or, at least, that known before the CCRC advised that it did not plan to make a referral?

I'd like to have a step by step walkthrough of the defence, but I've not brought my wellies, and the smell's a bit strong.


I actually asked for this a few threads ago... because I knew the defence seemed reluctant to ever spell ALL the defence out in one go... because it would look ludicrous. In small portions it just about sounds credible, albeit with slightly eccentric interpretations, but when added up - it's crazy than a box of frogs.

-----------------------------

The police case is a ludicrous one...

[mike tesko]

PC Myall sees an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am - but if he didn't get there until 3:48am, how could he have?

Is that the best you can do?

Can't you get your brain into gear and work it out that he might just have got to the scene before 3:45am?

If he got there before 3:45am, then of course the timings in Bonnets log are wrong and inaccurate, and he appears to make the same mistake that PC West chooses to rely upon, with regard to the timings in his own phone log (3:36am)?

[Kaldin]

Still waiting for proof that Myall saw a male figure at a window at 3.45 ....

[mb1]

PC Myall wasn't even at the house at 3.45.

-------------------------

Oh, yes he was...

Oh no he wasn't ...

----

Oh yes he was, and he shouldn't be making notes about being there at that time, and claiming to have seen an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, if he was not there...

Funny how only PS Bews says they saw a silhouetted figure at the bedroom window that he claims was a trick of light (depending upon which version he is telling) or the moon reflecting upon the glass of the bedroom window...

How come, both PC Myall and PS Bews, do not say the same thing?

Myall, Bews, and Bamber were in the grounds at whf by 3:45am - its a nailed on certainty...

The unidentified male who PC Myall did see at whf at 3:45am, gives JB the perfect alibi - because at the time of the sighting of that male person at the bedroom window, JB was outside in the company of Bews and Myall...

These are the FACTS...

It's all there in the MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT which EP created and produced to help them identify who the male person that had been seen inside whf, at 3:45am, could have been? They know it was not JB because he was outside in the grounds of the house with the police, so it had to be either Ralph Bamber, or another male person...

This sighting was part of the reason why EP seized JB's answer phone, and why they arrested Mathew McDonald, on suspicion of him being the hitman, who may have been seen inside the bedroom window by PC Myall at about 3:45am...

To Mike Tesko:
It has previously been asserted that JB, Myall and Bews arrived at WHF at a later time.
You are now stating the time was much earlier without providing proof of same.
Do you see our problem with that?

MIP
Are you able to post the MIP document?
If not, are you stating with certainty that this is in the possession of JB's defence team? Since when?
Or is this speculation as to what may be in the MIP?

Answerphone
The seizure must be documented. Do you and/or JB's defence have possession of this document? Since when? Can you post it?
Earlier in this thread you stated that the tapes were examined, so there should be a specialist's report, even if it is inconclusive. Do you and/or JB's defence have the report? Since when? Can you post it?

Thanks.

[curiousessex]

PC Myall wasn't even at the house at 3.45.

-------------------------

Oh, yes he was...

Oh no he wasn't ...

----

Oh yes he was, and he shouldn't be making notes about being there at that time, and claiming to have seen an unidentified male at the scene at 3:45am, if he was not there...

Funny how only PS Bews says they saw a silhouetted figure at the bedroom window that he claims was a trick of light (depending upon which version he is telling) or the moon reflecting upon the glass of the bedroom window...

How come, both PC Myall and PS Bews, do not say the same thing?

Myall, Bews, and Bamber were in the grounds at whf by 3:45am - its a nailed on certainty...

The unidentified male who PC Myall did see at whf at 3:45am, gives JB the perfect alibi - because at the time of the sighting of that male person at the bedroom window, JB was outside in the company of Bews and Myall...

These are the FACTS...

It's all there in the MAJOR INCIDENT PROJECT which EP created and produced to help them identify who the male person that had been seen inside whf, at 3:45am, could have been? They know it was not JB because he was outside in the grounds of the house with the police, so it had to be either Ralph Bamber, or another male person...

This sighting was part of the reason why EP seized JB's answer phone, and why they arrested Mathew McDonald, on suspicion of him being the hitman, who may have been seen inside the bedroom window by PC Myall at about 3:45am...

Please post a document written by PC Myall which says that he saw a male person at a window at 3.45 am, otherwise I have no choice but to conclude that you made all that up.

-----------------------

I am afraid the only person making anything up, is you...

Hang on a second Mike, I believe you started the following thread 

"Timetable of Events - Ralph / Jeremy phone calls"

That thread includes the following -

Timetable of Events - Ralph / Jeremy phone calls

Ralph Bamber

(1) 03:25am - Ralph calls Jeremy
(2) 03:26am - Ralph calls police
(3) 03:35am - Ca07 and occupants are deployed to the scene at whf
(4) 03:48am - CA07 arrives at whf
(5) 04:02am - CA07 makes a request from the scene for the firearms team to be deployed

Jeremy Bamber

(1) 03:25am - Jeremy receives call from Ralph
(2) 03:30am - Jeremy calls Julie Mugford
(3) 03:36am - Jeremy calls police
(4) 03:36am - CA06 deployed to scene at whf in response to Jeremy's call
(5) 03:45am - Jeremy leaves cottage to go to scene at whf
(6) 03:52am - Jeremy arrives at whf
(7) 04:00am - Jeremy and police see silhouetted figure at bedroom window of whf
( 04:23am - CA06 arrives at the scene, whf


Now you are saying…………

Myall, Bews, and Bamber were in the grounds at whf by 3:45am - its a nailed on certainty...

In my opinion, I am afraid the above include major contradictions and require some kind of a detailed explanation.