Accomplice, who was he?

[Caroline]

People have said on this board that Jeremy could not have committed the massacre alone. I do not see why not.

He had lots of advantages.

The element of surprise.

A fully loaded rifle with ten bullets. Five head shots, one into each person should at least immobilise them.

Being fully clothed. Being up against two six year olds, a 61 year old woman & small woman. They were all managable even if they woke up. However all of them should be fast asleep.



The only person who could cause problems was Neville. But a couple of good head shots while he was sleeping would resolve that. That is why in my scenario Jeremy entered the main bedroom first.

Things did not go quite to plan. Neville waking up & a brutal fight taking place.

Small woman? I'm not saying Jeremy couldn't have committed the murders alone but Sheila wasn't small - she was 5'7".

[No-Bits]

Small woman? I'm not saying Jeremy couldn't have committed the murders alone but Sheila wasn't small - she was 5'7".

Surely that depends on Adams definition of small? Perhaps he lives in house full of 6'4" woman?

A bit pedantic.

[Caroline]

Surely that depends on Adams definition of small? Perhaps he lives in house full of 6'4" woman?

A bit pedantic.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 - yes Hartley you are! 

[lookout]

 It's a complete fallacy to say that a slightly-built young woman couldn't tackle a well-built 6ft odd man,,,whilst brandishing a gun/rifle. The holder of the weapon is in full control,in that one wrong move by the " hostage " would render that person incapable for starters,leading to their death if they tried to fight back,,unarmed. The gun/rifle itself isn't dangerous,,but the person wielding it is.
 

[No-Bits]

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 - yes Hartley you are! 

11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 - Only to you dear. 

[Jane]

People have said on this board that Jeremy could not have committed the massacre alone. I do not see why not.

He had lots of advantages.

The element of surprise.

A fully loaded rifle with ten bullets. Five head shots, one into each person should at least immobilise them.

Being fully clothed. Being up against two six year olds, a 61 year old woman & small woman. They were all managable even if they woke up. However all of them should be fast asleep.



The only person who could cause problems was Neville. But a couple of good head shots while he was sleeping would resolve that. That is why in my scenario Jeremy entered the main bedroom first.

Things did not go quite to plan. Neville waking up & a brutal fight taking place.

I'd be interested to hear where you believe this brutal fight took place, Adam. If our new friend Scipio is correct, Nevill, whilst still in the bedroom, was shot, not only in the shoulder, which would have incapacitated his arm and compromised his balance, he was also shot in the face which both shattered his jaw and smashed his trachea  but still managed to get downstairs after which I feel anything like a brutal fight would have been unnecessary.

[No-Bits]

I'd be interested to hear where you believe this brutal fight took place, Adam. If our new friend Scipio is correct, Nevill, whilst still in the bedroom, was shot, not only in the shoulder, which would have incapacitated his arm and compromised his balance, he was also shot in the face which both shattered his jaw and smashed his trachea  but still managed to get downstairs after which I feel anything like a brutal fight would have been unnecessary.

He was definitely shot upstairs, due to the blood stains on the landing and outside the kitchen door. The pathologist states that the four head shots would have been instantly fatal.

The conundrum is that only three shells were found in the kitchen, which is why it has been suggested that a shell must have been relocated.

[Jane]

He was definitely shot upstairs, due to the blood stains on the landing and outside the kitchen door. The pathologist states that the four head shots would have been instantly fatal.

The conundrum is that only three shells were found in the kitchen, which is why it has been suggested that a shell must have been relocated.

I would entirely agree that some of the injuries were received upstairs.

[Adam]

The twins & June were shot in bed.  The twins certainly asleep. June probably asleep. Neville shot upstairs in the main bedroom.

All this supports the Jeremy committed the massacre theory.

The twins, June & Neville would not have heard Jeremy creep upstairs with a rifle. The twins would not have heard the upstairs shots, with the silencer on. The twins would not have heard Neville & Jeremy run downstairs or the kitchen struggle in another part of the house. So would have remained asleep. Meaning an easy double kill for Jeremy.

However Sheila was going crazy with a rifle in her hand. For several minutes. Or even several hours. Certainly long & seriously enough for Neville to make two phone calls. Surely the twins & June would not be sleeping.

[No-Bits]

The twins & June were shot in bed.  The twins certainly asleep. June probably asleep. Neville shot upstairs in the main bedroom.

All this supports the Jeremy committed the massacre theory.

The twins, June & Neville would not have heard Jeremy creep upstairs with a rifle. The twins would not have heard the upstairs shots, with the silencer on. The twins would not have heard Neville & Jeremy run downstairs or the kitchen struggle in another part of the house. So would have remained asleep. Meaning an easy double kill for Jeremy.

However Sheila was going crazy with a rifle in her hand. For several minutes. Or even several hours. Certainly long & seriously enough for Neville to make two phone calls. Surely the twins & June would not be sleeping.

Kinda makes sense, but we don't know if June was asleep or not, she was certainly awake at some point.

I think if the twins are the first victims (which is what I believe), then that pretty much kicks your above theory in to touch.

[Jane]

The twins & June were shot in bed.  The twins certainly asleep. June probably asleep. Neville shot upstairs in the main bedroom.

All this supports the Jeremy committed the massacre theory.

The twins, June & Neville would not have heard Jeremy creep upstairs with a rifle. The twins would not have heard the upstairs shots, with the silencer on. The twins would not have heard Neville & Jeremy run downstairs or the kitchen struggle in another part of the house. So would have remained asleep. Meaning an easy double kill for Jeremy.

However Sheila was going crazy with a rifle in her hand. For several minutes. Or even several hours. Certainly long & seriously enough for Neville to make two phone calls. Surely the twins & June would not be sleeping.

"The twins, June and Nevill would not have heard Jeremy creep upstairs with a rifle."!!! Adam, why would Sheila, calmly ascending the stair with a rifle, have made any more noise than Jeremy? We obviously don't share the same view of what "crazy" means. Sheila may have seemed perfectly composed and resolute. Had she not told Ann that she believed God had a purpose for her and that all people are wicked and should die?

[wilf]

The twins & June were shot in bed.  The twins certainly asleep. June probably asleep. Neville shot upstairs in the main bedroom.

All this supports the Jeremy committed the massacre theory.

The twins, June & Neville would not have heard Jeremy creep upstairs with a rifle. The twins would not have heard the upstairs shots, with the silencer on. The twins would not have heard Neville & Jeremy run downstairs or the kitchen struggle in another part of the house. So would have remained asleep. Meaning an easy double kill for Jeremy.

However Sheila was going crazy with a rifle in her hand. For several minutes. Or even several hours. Certainly long & seriously enough for Neville to make two phone calls. Surely the twins & June would not be sleeping.

I think  the children and June were asleep Ralph went downstairs found Shiela in a psychotic state managed  to make calls to Jeremy and police whilst Shiel was not connected to the real world.  Ralph went upstairs to protect the family Shiela either followed or used another stair . Only then did
she fire any shots first disabling Ralph who fled downstairs then killng the children then June who was just waking. I dont think she fought with her father but beat him after death. more rounds were fired later.

this theory works for me

wilf

[Adam]

Kinda makes sense, but we don't know if June was asleep or not, she was certainly awake at some point.

I think if the twins are the first victims (which is what I believe), then that pretty much kicks your above theory in to touch.

Personally I would enter the main bedroom first with a fully loaded rifle. Neville was potentionally the biggest threat. Neville was shot 4 times upstairs. June shot seven times, on two separate occasions. So it seems Jeremy entered the main bedroom fully loaded.

There is a chance Jeremy shot the twins. Then went downstairs to reload. That is risky. If Neville & June wake up & confront an out of bullets Jeremy upstairs, it could be curtains.

[No-Bits]

I think  the children and June were asleep Ralph went downstairs found Shiela in a psychotic state managed  to make calls to Jeremy and police whilst Shiel was not connected to the real world.  Ralph went upstairs to protect the family Shiela either followed or used another stair . Only then did
she fire any shots first disabling Ralph who fled downstairs then killng the children then June who was just waking. I dont think she fought with her father but beat him after death. more rounds were fired later.

this theory works for me

wilf

That doesn't work at all for me. I can't imagine Nevill calling Jeremy before alerting and protecting the other occupants of the house. Especially when Sheila is "crazy" (whatever that means).

You'd also need to try and factor in the bullet reloads, all whilst the twins are still asleep.

[Jane]

I think  the children and June were asleep Ralph went downstairs found Shiela in a psychotic state managed  to make calls to Jeremy and police whilst Shiel was not connected to the real world.  Ralph went upstairs to protect the family Shiela either followed or used another stair . Only then did
she fire any shots first disabling Ralph who fled downstairs then killng the children then June who was just waking. I dont think she fought with her father but beat him after death. more rounds were fired later.

this theory works for me

wilf

Wilf, that's the theory I go with. I don't think Sheila uttered a word during the whole thing and what ever world she inhabited, it wasn't this one, but I think she was resolute and focused entirely on her purpose.