Jeremys second phone call to Julie:

[Reader]

MB's log indicates that it was Nevill that telephoned the police at 3:26, and Pc West wrote that Jeremy rang him at 3:36. Both wrote logs that fit with Jeremy's account, as given before he knew what was in the logs. If Jeremy rang Julie at about 3am, he couldn't possibly have known that Julie wouldn't remember that time initially or that after ringing her flat to ask about the time of the call, she would say it occurred at about 3:30. If the police really thought that one of their own clocks might have been 10 minutes fast, why didn't they make enquiries to find out who reset it to the correct time?

[Adam]

The police have never said they got a call from Neville. Even in the first month before Jeremy was charged.

It is inconcievable that Jeremy would not have been told that Neville had also phoned the police. Probably on the massacre night or soon afterwards.

Taff Jones would have told the relatives as soon as they started saying they did not beleive Sheila was capable of the massacre. He & other aware police officers would have also told the rest of EP, meaning no one within EP would suspect Jeremy.

Jeremy made it clear on the night & afterwards that Neville liked to keep things private & not involve the police. Changing his mind 20 years later.

The 3am phone call was discussed in court & was in the judges summing up. It is very damaging for Jeremy & highlights certain guilt.

[wilf]

The police have never said they got a call from Neville. Even in the first month before Jeremy was charged.

It is inconcievable that Jeremy would not have been told that Neville had also phoned the police. Probably on the massacre night or soon afterwards.

Taff Jones would have told the relatives as soon as they started saying they did not beleive Sheila was capable of the massacre. He & other aware police officers would have also told the rest of EP, meaning no one within EP would suspect Jeremy.

Jeremy made it clear on the night & afterwards that Neville liked to keep things private & not involve the police. Changing his mind 20 years later.

The 3am phone call was discussed in court & was in the judges summing up. It is very damaging for Jeremy & highlights certain guilt.

due to PII we dont know what Taff Jones or any other officers knew that night or in the days just after the raid had taken place. the logs were no even made public untill many years after the event. if they pointed to Jeremys guilt why were they not made an issue of at trial?

wilf

[maggie]

due to PII we dont know what Taff Jones or any other officers knew that night or in the days just after the raid had taken place. the logs were no even made public untill many years after the event. if they pointed to Jeremys guilt why were they not made an issue of at trial?

wilf

Exactly Wilf. These questions come up all the time, so much evidence is conspicuous by it's absence.

[susan]

Maggie I think Taff Jones knew exactly what had taken place on the fateful night at WHF and this is why he would not take the rellies on board and eventually removed from the case.  Now why would they remove a first class police officer like Taff Jones off the case

[grahameb]

MB's log indicates that it was Nevill that telephoned the police at 3:26, and Pc West wrote that Jeremy rang him at 3:36. Both wrote logs that fit with Jeremy's account, as given before he knew what was in the logs. If Jeremy rang Julie at about 3am, he couldn't possibly have known that Julie wouldn't remember that time initially or that after ringing her flat to ask about the time of the call, she would say it occurred at about 3:30. If the police really thought that one of their own clocks might have been 10 minutes fast, why didn't they make enquiries to find out who reset it to the correct time?

Agreed. In some way both logs were merged into one. The police sometimes do that so that they know that both called are related to one another. Police may deny it. But the logs seem to confirm it. I think that the two logs are separate phone calls personally?

[maggie]

Agreed. In some way both logs were merged into one. The police sometimes do that so that they know that both called are related to one another. Police may deny it. But the logs seem to confirm it. I think that the two logs are separate phone calls personally?

Its hard to believe otherwise Grahame, there are noticeable differences which are very difficult to explain.

[Reader]

It is inconcievable that Jeremy would not have been told that Neville had also phoned the police.

Why? I find it odd and surprising, but that's a long way short of inconceivable. Perhaps Nevill said something to Pc West that led him to choose not to disclose the call to Jeremy when he rang, or perhaps Pc West simply chose not to tell Jeremy because he thought it would add to his distress.

[maggie]

Why? I find it odd and surprising, but that's a long way short of inconceivable. Perhaps Nevill said something to Pc West that led him to choose not to disclose the call to Jeremy when he rang, or perhaps Pc West simply chose not to tell Jeremy because he thought it would add to his distress.

I agree Reader, all things are possible and  nothing is inconceivable, however difficult it may be for a person to accept.

[lookout]

It's only over time that the memory begins to sort itself out regarding the past. When confronted with the present,,it's much more difficult to remember what you had for lunch the day before,,let alone what time you received a phone-call. Unless these things are immediately written down as they occur,,then vital information is lost forever in a fog of guesswork.
"Original" police logs/documents will have been written as to the crime scene. Though a selective memory came into play when these originals were not adhered to and another set were presented during the trial,,with an edited version of events.

Hence this is why Jeremy has had the time to sit and think about past events,times,,and what he did that particular day. His mind now at this stage will be very much focussed on  reverting to the past,,it is obvious,,as sadly,he's had no future to think about,,so therefore lots of things would become clearer to him.

[Adam]

Why? I find it odd and surprising, but that's a long way short of inconceivable. Perhaps Nevill said something to Pc West that led him to choose not to disclose the call to Jeremy when he rang, or perhaps Pc West simply chose not to tell Jeremy because he thought it would add to his distress.

It is called teamwork. Jeremy says what he knows. The police inform Jeremy what Neville has told them. In this serious situation both parties must know everthing.

However Jeremy seemed to be directly things upon arrival.

Telling the police Sheila was a nutter & depressive psychopath. He also said Sheila was competent with guns. But changed his story in court.

[Adam]

Anyway my thread post asked the question -

Does Jeremy being awake at 3.00am, rather than asleep as he claimed, highlight his guilt ?

[susan]

Adam don't understand the question are you saying if Jeremy was asleep at 3 a.m. he is guilty of murder or if he was not asleep at 3 a.m. he is guilty of murder.

[susan]

 Adam what does that mean Jeremy seems to be directly things upon arrival.

[Adam]

Adam don't understand the question are you saying if Jeremy was asleep at 3 a.m. he is guilty of murder or if he was not asleep at 3 a.m. he is guilty of murder.

Er no. If he slept 'like a log' until being woken by Nevilles 3.20am phone call, then he was innocent. Jeremy is claiming this is what happened.

However he phoned Julie at 3.00am. Meaning he was awake a long time before Nevilles call. For some strange reason deciding to phone Julie ?