What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?

[Adam]

People say one of the reasons OJ got off is because the jury were confused about the DNA evidence. DNA was quite new in 1995.

The more the defence confused the jury, the better for Jeremy.

[grahameb]

No the shot to his left shoulder and left Jaw would not be possible with him slumped over the chair.  The top of his head and right sid eof his head was exposed, his left side was shielded.

You seem desperate to say he could not have been seated in the bedroom but that is not the case.

All shots to the left side were mos tlikely delivered in the bedroom, they are all the left profile shots and there were the casings to estbalish they likely were there.  Moreover, the only reasonable explanation of how Nevill got out of the bedroom and down to the kitchen is that the killer ran out of ammo.  The gun held 11 rounds max and tha tis how many casings were in th ebedroom and how many shots would have been fired (7 into June, 4 into Nevill = 11)

No it doesn't.  I can be shorter than you and you can be standing and I still can deliver a bullet to you that is in a downward trajectory.  I simply can't do so to your head or other parts of your body that are higher than where I aim the rifle (for those parts higher than where I hold the rifle the trajectory will be up).  Otherwise I have to hold the rifle higher than eye level without being able to aim and just hope I manage to hit you.  Aside from when shooting over a barricade you are hiding behind or around corners I can't think of any reason someone would do that.

 

Who runs down the stairs away from someone with a gun with their left side facing the killer?  You can't even walk that way you would have to hop and probably would fall and break your ass.  If you are running away your back would be to the shooter. The easiest part of the body to aim at is the chest, it is the biggest part.  If someone is running then you aim at the back, if facing you then the chest.

The head is a shot for when you are close and indeed the jaw shot was delivered less than a foot away.  The shot into his side and his shoulder are the ones that were 2 feet away.   

Jeremy could potentially deliver the shoulder shot while he and Nevill are both standing it is bordeline range for someone of his height.  I still would would want to test it to see.   Sheila was too short no way she could do so Nevill would have to have been sitting at the time fo rher to be able to deliver that shot.  Obviously since the jaw shot is higher that means the same thing is true about that shot with respect to Sheila.  The prosecution said that Jeremy could also fire the jaw shot with both standing.  I have my doubts, there would really need to be tests done on Jeremy to see if he could do it because that is high enough that most people his height can't.  There are variations in army reahc where the eyes are etc of people the same height but usally not enough to make a huge difference.   

In this case it doesn't particularly matter because there is no tell tale evidence to prove he was definitely sitting or standing.  If there were blood evidence that proved the wound was delivered standing that would rule out Sheila unless she were standing on something, which is unlikely.  I would not concede that point if I were his attorney because you never know what the other side will try to argue.  I like to be prepared to deal with any potential argument that could arise.

He would have to be sitting when shot in the jaw and shoulder for Sheils to have done it otherwise she had to stand on something.  Jeremy might have been able to deliver these shots with Jeremy standing but it is more likely he would not have been able to do so and that Nevill would have been sitting.

Without actually doing a test to see exactly where Jeremy would hold the gun level I can't determine it for sure because it is a borderline case and he could potentially have a higher line of sight than others his height, he could exaggerate his height...  Sheila is way off so it doesn't matter.  He is, "in the ballpark" so variation could be a big deal one way or the other.   

 

So in effect what you are saying is that Ralph received most of his shots in the bedroom and then ran or staggered downstairs? So using your same scenario if Sheila received her non fatal wound downstairs would she have been able to run or stagger upstairs with just one wound?

2nd point. So now you are trying to convince us that Sheila could not have since all his wounds were of a downward trajectory and that she was too short. But Jeremy although still too short to have shot Ralph from that angle could have exagerated his height? I see so sheila is too short to have done it and Jeremy is too short to have done it. But Jeremy alone could have exagerated his height?

[scipio_usmc]

So in effect what you are saying is that Ralph received most of his shots in the bedroom and then ran or staggered downstairs? So using your same scenario if Sheila received her non fatal wound downstairs would she have been able to run or stagger upstairs with just one wound?

The last time I checked 4 is = 4 and 4/8 is half not most.

According to the medical examiner the 4 wounds to the left of his body that were suffered upstairs would not have prevented him from going downstairs the kitchen.  If he would not have been able to do so then the struggle in the kitchen would never have occurred.

A piece of his lip was shot off, he had a bullet in his shoulder, a graze of which part of the fragment ended up in his side and a shot to his jaw that ended up severing his voicebox.  None of the se wouldns would have immobilized him right away.  None of these wound would have been possible to deliver in the position his body was found in. 

How would he go down the stairs so that his side profile would be directly facing a shooter at the top of the stairs? Who walks down stairs sideways?  Even on purpose it would b difficult.   Someone being chased by a killer would be running and that is if Nevill was running away.  For all we know the killer was running and Nevill was giving chase. Nevill tried to wrestle the gun away in the kitchen so it could be either way. That is where either where he caught up with the killer or the killer caught up with him and whichever the case is he then tried to disarm the killer.

For sure the gun was out of ammo or Nevill would not have made it out of the bedroom.   But for the gun being empty the killer would not have fled to the kitchen with Nevill giving chase or alternatively manage to get hrough the killer out the door to run to the kitchen with the killer giving chase.

2nd point. So now you are trying to convince us that Sheila could not have since all his wounds were of a downward trajectory and that she was too short. But Jeremy although still too short to have shot Ralph from that angle could have exagerated his height? I see so sheila is too short to have done it and Jeremy is too short to have done it. But Jeremy alone could have exagerated his height?

Explain how Sheila could have fired the shot into Nevill's jaw or shoulder in a downward trajectory unless he were in a lower position viv a vis her.  His jaw and the area of his shoulder are higher than where she would hold a gun level.  A level shot is relatively straight.  Since these locations are higher than a level shot that means if she hit such locations and he were standing and she were standing on the same level as him then the shots would be upwards.  What is confusing about this?  It is not rocket science.

So other than if he was sitting or she were standing on something, explain how such could occur.

[grahameb]

The last time I checked 4 is = 4 and 4/8 is half not most.

According to the medical examiner the 4 wounds to the left of his body that were suffered upstairs would not have prevented him from going downstairs the kitchen.  If he would not have been able to do so then the struggle in the kitchen would never have occurred.

A piece of his lip was shot off, he had a bullet in his shoulder, a graze of which part of the fragment ended up in his side and a shot to his jaw that ended up severing his voicebox.  None of the se wouldns would have immobilized him right away.  None of these wound would have been possible to deliver in the position his body was found in. 

How would he go down the stairs so that his side profile would be directly facing a shooter at the top of the stairs? Who walks down stairs sideways?  Even on purpose it would b difficult.   Someone being chased by a killer would be running and that is if Nevill was running away.  For all we know the killer was running and Nevill was giving chase. Nevill tried to wrestle the gun away in the kitchen so it could be either way. That is where either where he caught up with the killer or the killer caught up with him and whichever the case is he then tried to disarm the killer.

For sure the gun was out of ammo or Nevill would not have made it out of the bedroom.   But for the gun being empty the killer would not have fled to the kitchen with Nevill giving chase or alternatively manage to get hrough the killer out the door to run to the kitchen with the killer giving chase.

Explain how Sheila could have fired the shot into Nevill's jaw or shoulder in a downward trajectory unless he were in a lower position viv a vis her.  His jaw and the area of his shoulder are higher than where she would hold a gun level.  A level shot is relatively straight.  Since these locations are higher than a level shot that means if she hit such locations and he were standing and she were standing on the same level as him then the shots would be upwards.  What is confusing about this?  It is not rocket science.

So other than if he was sitting or she were standing on something, explain how such could occur.

I'm afraid that the confusion is of your own making.For you stated that even Jeremy would have been too short so he would have had to extend himself in order to make the downward shot. What I am asking if you have not understood it yet is why would Jeremy want to extend himself in order to shoot Ralph in a downward trajectory? In other words why would he want to shoot him on a downward direction?

[scipio_usmc]

I'm afraid that the confusion is of your own making.For you stated that even Jeremy would have been too short so he would have had to extend himself in order to make the downward shot. What I am asking if you have not understood it yet is why would Jeremy want to extend himself in order to shoot Ralph in a downward trajectory? In other words why would he want to shoot him on a downward direction?

The prosecution witnesses say he could have fired the shots standing on the same level as Nevill.

I PERSONALLY have my doubts.  It could be possible it might not.  Sheila's not in the ballpark even.  He's in the ballpark but that doesn't make it definite.  I still think it more likely he would have been too low for the jaw shot in particular but the coroner said otherwise.

This is one of those things where I would want exact measurements to test it to see.  The defense didn't do it because it was not cruicial to the case.  Suppose there were absolute proof that Nevill had to have been standing during the jaw shot. If Jeremy could do the shot standing with the down trajectory but not Sheila then this is strong evidence Jeremy more likely was th eshooter because why would she stand on a chair?   In that case the defense would want to try to see if a defense expert could determine otherwise. But because it didn't really matter the defense made no effort to challenge the point by having an expert test the claim.

So at the end of the day I can't say he would not have been able to but I have my doubts and can't say he definitely would just because the prosecution claimed it.  The prosecution expert didn't seem to analyze him to see where he would hold a gun level so...





       

The only way to know for sure would be to do exact measurments of where the rifle would be level for him.   

[Neil]

Having read Scipios posts about the back spatter, I can now appreciate that this is a more damning piece of evidence, than I had hitherto appreciated. 

As Scipio explains, it would have been almost impossible for relatives or Police to have artificially manufactured this evidence.

Are we all agreed that it's been proved beyond doubt, that the blood in the silencer was human?

[lookout]

Would backspatter be in evidence from a professional shooter ?

[susan]

lookout have no idea perhaps ngb will tell us when he has time.

[grahameb]

The prosecution witnesses say he could have fired the shots standing on the same level as Nevill.

I PERSONALLY have my doubts.  It could be possible it might not.  Sheila's not in the ballpark even.  He's in the ballpark but that doesn't make it definite.  I still think it more likely he would have been too low for the jaw shot in particular but the coroner said otherwise.

This is one of those things where I would want exact measurements to test it to see.  The defense didn't do it because it was not cruicial to the case.  Suppose there were absolute proof that Nevill had to have been standing during the jaw shot. If Jeremy could do the shot standing with the down trajectory but not Sheila then this is strong evidence Jeremy more likely was th eshooter because why would she stand on a chair?   In that case the defense would want to try to see if a defense expert could determine otherwise. But because it didn't really matter the defense made no effort to challenge the point by having an expert test the claim.

So at the end of the day I can't say he would not have been able to but I have my doubts and can't say he definitely would just because the prosecution claimed it.  The prosecution expert didn't seem to analyze him to see where he would hold a gun level so...





       

The only way to know for sure would be to do exact measurments of where the rifle would be level for him.

Abby from NCIS would solve it.

[guest154]

Having read Scipios posts about the back spatter, I can now appreciate that this is a more damning piece of evidence, than I had hitherto appreciated. 

As Scipio explains, it would have been almost impossible for relatives or Police to have artificially manufactured this evidence.

Are we all agreed that it's been proved beyond doubt, that the blood in the silencer was human?

It had human enzymes.
I agree though - it just doesn't seem possible for the relatives or police to create this evidence. Scipio's posts are thought provoking.

[lookout]

There's bound to be splatter if the weapon is fired at close proximity,,i.e. a contact shot will naturally suck back whose ever blood the last user was,,which was bound to have been Sheilas' as it happened to be a con tact shot,,,but it doesn't mean to say that Jeremy was the shooter-------------that's far too easy to deduce !

[grahameb]

Having read Scipios posts about the back spatter, I can now appreciate that this is a more damning piece of evidence, than I had hitherto appreciated. 

As Scipio explains, it would have been almost impossible for relatives or Police to have artificially manufactured this evidence.

Are we all agreed that it's been proved beyond doubt, that the blood in the silencer was human?

There is nothing in any report which talks about the way the blood found its way onto the baffles of the silencer. All they spoke about was blood found up to the 8th baffle. It could easily be duplicated by anyone. It is only scipio who has made it look as if they had to be precision experts with an airbrush or something similar.

But as I explained earlier it should never have reached the courts as evidence. Also we must consider the possibility that the blood was RWB's, as he had the same blood group as Sheila. I'm not saying that it was. But that it could have been.

Why do I say that? Because the silencer was handled by so many people before it got to the lab that it should never have been considered as evidence.

But there is another reason to consider. Since everyone of the family knew how to get into the house without a key (not only Jeremy knew this) how can we be certain that the silencer was planted on a previous night?

I'm probably wrong? I hope I am wrong. Ann Eaton in her statement seems to be sincere when she said that it was put in a wardrobe in her room and was not touched until collected by the police officer.
But wouldn't it have silenced much speculation to have done the correct thing and just left it in situ? Unfortunately as soon ad DB touched it, there was a possibility that it became contaminated and therefore useless as evidence?

[Neil]

There is nothing in any report which talks about the way the blood found its way onto the baffles of the silencer. All they spoke about was blood found up to the 8th baffle. It could easily be duplicated by anyone. It is only scipio who has made it look as if they had to be precision experts with an airbrush or something similar.

But as I explained earlier it should never have reached the courts as evidence. Also we must consider the possibility that the blood was RWB's, as he had the same blood group as Sheila. I'm not saying that it was. But that it could have been.

Why do I say that? Because the silencer was handled by so many people before it got to the lab that it should never have been considered as evidence.

But there is another reason to consider. Since everyone of the family knew how to get into the house without a key (not only Jeremy knew this) how can we be certain that the silencer was planted on a previous night?

I'm probably wrong? I hope I am wrong. Ann Eaton in her statement seems to be sincere when she said that it was put in a wardrobe in her room and was not touched until collected by the police officer.
But wouldn't it have silenced much speculation to have done the correct thing and just left it in situ? Unfortunately as soon ad DB touched it, there was a possibility that it became contaminated and therefore useless as evidence?

Good post Grahame.

We are talking about spatter, minute flecks of blood, rather than droplets of blood.

How could RWB's blood spatter have got into the silencer?

I agree, the handling of the silencer left it wide open to contamination, it doesn't, however, explain how Sheila's blood spatter got into the thing.

[Neil]

Good post Grahame.

We are talking about spatter, minute flecks of blood, rather than droplets of blood.

How could RWB's blood spatter have got into the silencer?

I agree, the handling of the silencer left it wide open to contamination, it doesn't, however, explain how Sheila's blood spatter got into the thing.

Or maybe we're not!

I've just spent a little while trying to find some evidence to support this assertion.  I found none.

Perhaps Scipio can help me out, upon his return. 

[lookout]

Neil,,it's those minute specks of spatter that forensics would have traced if the investigation had been done to perfection.