What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?

[grahameb]

How did they exaggerate his expertise?  The testimony from Julie, the family and workers at the farm was that he didn't like to shoot animals and didn't even have much interest in guns so rarely did anyone see him touch a gun.  Their claims are supported by his own statements where he referred to cocking the murder gun though there is nothing to cock and presumable he meant chambering a round and he erroneously claimed a sound suppressor is to stop the sonic boom caused by bullets.  Nor was he aware of the capacity of the magazine.  They described someone not experienced and his statements support that.   


If who is wrong about what?   


You have presented no legal reasons why it should not have been accepted.

Nor hads anyone produced any evidence that suggests the blood was planted there.  The distribution of blood speaks to the opposite because someone planting it would likely have used a dropper or poured it in from a vial.  Neither would acocunt for the distribution found by the 2 experts such blood was sprayed inside. 

In addition to planting blood they would have beened to eliminate all record of any blood being found in the barrel of the weapon itself.  If the suppressor had not been attached then blood would have been in the rifle.


He was slumped over the the kitchen and the shots in his head could have been delivered by someone who wasn't standing on anything. 

2 of the remaining shots were too high up to have been delivered by Sheila with Nevill standing upright unless she were standing on something. (left shoulder and left jaw).  The prosecution witnesses think that Jeremy was tall enough to deliver the shot with Nevill standing.  I doubt that though, even for Jeremy it would not have been easy to accomplish unless he is taller than I have seen quoted.   

The last 2 (lip and graze wound part of which ended up in his side and the remainder probably on the bed) could have been delivered while he was standing by either of them.       

The shot that grazed his left arm (part of the fragment entered his side and landed in his abdomen) could have been delivered by either while he was standing.   

As a practical matter, if Nevill were standing it would be easier for Jeremy to fire at a downward angle than it would for Sheila since she was shorter. 

But she could have fired into his slumped head just as easily as Jeremy.  Likewise if he was sitting upstairs then she could fired just as easily as Jeremy at the downward angle. 

If anything it suggest Jeremy more than Sheila but is not conclusive.  The angles do not tell us who the killer was they just tell us the location of the shooter vis a vis the victims. 

The shell casings and wound tracts are more useful at figuring out which shots were delivered where than anything else.

Part of her toenail wasn't broken off and missing let alone found anywhere. Some of the varnish had rubbed off merely.  A photo expert claims that  atiny speck in one of the crime schene photos is a piece of varnish but his claims he could match a speck to her toenail defies belief and is not considered trustworthy.  Even if a piece of varnish had chipped off in the kitchen there is no way to prove it didn't happen any of the 3 days preceeding the murders she was there 3 days.   It would not establish she was in the kitchen at the time Nevill was killed.

This is the same reason the alleged gray hair on the suppressor is meaningless.  Even if Nevill's hair were found on the suppressor that would not prove it got there from the murders.  It was his gun, in his gun closet in his house.  His hair was likely all around the place and could attach to any object innocently enough.     

I don't think that you are listening to me scipio? Aske the other members of the euphamistically termed "red" forum when they get their information that Jeremy was a crack shot. In fact they insist that he was a crack shot, as it is the backbone of their case as to why he hit the target every time. In fact it was Ann Eaton and David Boutflour who also insisted that he was a crack shot. I don't really know why you continue to challenge me on this fact. But strangely enough I myself have always held that Jeremy was NOT a crack shot. I have always been reminded by the guilty party that he was a crack shot and they have always pointed to witness statements to prove their case.

I beg to differ concerning the toenail. But even if you contend that it was the varnish that had rubbed off it still places Sheila downstairs at some time. It appears that she was in the habit, as some women are of painting her finger and toe nalis at night before she went to bed. So how did the toenail (or varnish) get downstairs after she was supposed to have gone to the land of nod?

[lookout]

Susan,,totally convinced tells me that he saw her,alive. In order for him to arrive at such a swift decision,,then go off and play golf,,my guess would be that he knew instantly,even if she was breathing her last.

[lookout]

How bloody unfortunate that he died-------------but how convenient too !
A mountain was then made out of a mole-hill. That's the way I've ALWAYS seen it.

[lookout]

Those officers who were with " Taff " Jones will also know the REAL truth too !

[susan]

lookout we have to ask ourselves why was Taff removed from the case before his accident which resulted in his death

[susan]

lookout of course they will but they are not going to risk prosecution by telling us are they.

[grahameb]

How did they exaggerate his expertise?  The testimony from Julie, the family and workers at the farm was that he didn't like to shoot animals and didn't even have much interest in guns so rarely did anyone see him touch a gun.  Their claims are supported by his own statements where he referred to cocking the murder gun though there is nothing to cock and presumable he meant chambering a round and he erroneously claimed a sound suppressor is to stop the sonic boom caused by bullets.  Nor was he aware of the capacity of the magazine.  They described someone not experienced and his statements support that.   


If who is wrong about what?   


You have presented no legal reasons why it should not have been accepted.

Nor hads anyone produced any evidence that suggests the blood was planted there.  The distribution of blood speaks to the opposite because someone planting it would likely have used a dropper or poured it in from a vial.  Neither would acocunt for the distribution found by the 2 experts such blood was sprayed inside. 

In addition to planting blood they would have beened to eliminate all record of any blood being found in the barrel of the weapon itself.  If the suppressor had not been attached then blood would have been in the rifle.


He was slumped over the the kitchen and the shots in his head could have been delivered by someone who wasn't standing on anything. 

2 of the remaining shots were too high up to have been delivered by Sheila with Nevill standing upright unless she were standing on something. (left shoulder and left jaw).  The prosecution witnesses think that Jeremy was tall enough to deliver the shot with Nevill standing.  I doubt that though, even for Jeremy it would not have been easy to accomplish unless he is taller than I have seen quoted.    

The last 2 (lip and graze wound part of which ended up in his side and the remainder probably on the bed) could have been delivered while he was standing by either of them.       

The shot that grazed his left arm (part of the fragment entered his side and landed in his abdomen) could have been delivered by either while he was standing.   

As a practical matter, if Nevill were standing it would be easier for Jeremy to fire at a downward angle than it would for Sheila since she was shorter. 

But she could have fired into his slumped head just as easily as Jeremy.  Likewise if he was sitting upstairs then she could fired just as easily as Jeremy at the downward angle. 

If anything it suggest Jeremy more than Sheila but is not conclusive.  The angles do not tell us who the killer was they just tell us the location of the shooter vis a vis the victims. 

The shell casings and wound tracts are more useful at figuring out which shots were delivered where than anything else.

Part of her toenail wasn't broken off and missing let alone found anywhere. Some of the varnish had rubbed off merely.  A photo expert claims that  atiny speck in one of the crime schene photos is a piece of varnish but his claims he could match a speck to her toenail defies belief and is not considered trustworthy.  Even if a piece of varnish had chipped off in the kitchen there is no way to prove it didn't happen any of the 3 days preceeding the murders she was there 3 days.   It would not establish she was in the kitchen at the time Nevill was killed.

This is the same reason the alleged gray hair on the suppressor is meaningless.  Even if Nevill's hair were found on the suppressor that would not prove it got there from the murders.  It was his gun, in his gun closet in his house.  His hair was likely all around the place and could attach to any object innocently enough.     

So you agree that all the shots to Ralph's head were delivered when he was downstairs in the chair and not upstairs as you said before? In fact it appears that ALL shots to Ralph were delivered in a downward trajectory indicating that he was definitely in a lower position to his assailant.

Possibly one or two shots were aimed at him as he was going downstairs and perhaps turned a little to his left according to your own analysis of the scene? And seeing that those two shots again were aimed in a downward trajectory then it is possible that he was going downstairs at the time.

Moreover because ALL shots to Ralph were aimed at him in a downward trajectory wouldn't it be safe to assume that it matters not how tall the assailant was and could just as easily have been Sheila as well as Jeremy?

[lookout]

Because EP wanted a big fuss ( over nothing ) in order to get a " longed-for " conviction,as their roles as police officers were hanging in the balance over other unsolved cases. This would have been too easy to have been cut and dried in 5 minutes flat. EP wanted to make a bigger thing of it,,and the relatives and JM fitted the bill ( pun ).EP must have been rubbing their hands over the prospect of interviewing this young,,soon to be wealthy,arrogant man who nobody liked. The rest is history.

[lookout]

lookout we have to ask ourselves why was Taff removed from the case before his accident which resulted in his death

Susan,," Taff " would have thought the case was sorted and so let the others carry on. He may have been coming up for retirement as well,,though I wouldn't know the real truth about him leaving the case,,except that I'm sure it was he who arrested Jeremy,when he and Brett were staying at Maida Vale.
I couldn't understand that bit,as it was later after they'd returned from a holiday ( Amsterdam ? )

[susan]

lookout  I cannot understand why Taff arrested Jeremy I thought he was removed from the case because he would not change his stance and did get quite cross with the relatives when they were pestering him all the time about changing from 4 murders one suicide to 5 murders.

[lookout]

lookout  I cannot understand why Taff arrested Jeremy I thought he was removed from the case because he would not change his stance and did get quite cross with the relatives when they were pestering him all the time about changing from 4 murders one suicide to 5 murders.

This is what I can't understand,Susan,,as the relatives really got up the mans' nose,in and out like a fiddlers elbow.
I've been trying to find what I've read about in the past,that Neville used to play golf with one of the judges. Well he would,,wouldn't he,being a Magistrate ? 
There was an awful lot of sour grapes in this case,,and personality clashes galore. What a carry on.

[susan]

lookout you come out with some "crackers" I think for some reason Stan Jones was of the opinion that Jeremy was guilty and he made sure he got evidence to prove it in Court.. We will never know what went on behind the scenes with the different police officers.

[lookout]

All there was,was the silencer and that was a fluke to begin with. It was the ideal thing to use on those who didn't know one end of a rifle from the other ( the jury ) Blind them with science--------and that's exactly what happened. One even fell asleep with boredom. Probably one of the two who thought he was innocent.

[scipio_usmc]

So you agree that all the shots to Ralph's head were delivered when he was downstairs in the chair and not upstairs as you said before?

No the shot to his left shoulder and left Jaw would not be possible with him slumped over the chair.  The top of his head and right sid eof his head was exposed, his left side was shielded.

You seem desperate to say he could not have been seated in the bedroom but that is not the case.

All shots to the left side were mos tlikely delivered in the bedroom, they are all the left profile shots and there were the casings to estbalish they likely were there.  Moreover, the only reasonable explanation of how Nevill got out of the bedroom and down to the kitchen is that the killer ran out of ammo.  The gun held 11 rounds max and tha tis how many casings were in th ebedroom and how many shots would have been fired (7 into June, 4 into Nevill = 11)

In fact it appears that ALL shots to Ralph were delivered in a downward trajectory indicating that he was definitely in a lower position to his assailant.

No it doesn't.  I can be shorter than you and you can be standing and I still can deliver a bullet to you that is in a downward trajectory.  I simply can't do so to your head or other parts of your body that are higher than where I aim the rifle (for those parts higher than where I hold the rifle the trajectory will be up).  Otherwise I have to hold the rifle higher than eye level without being able to aim and just hope I manage to hit you.  Aside from when shooting over a barricade you are hiding behind or around corners I can't think of any reason someone would do that.

 

Possibly one or two shots were aimed at him as he was going downstairs and perhaps turned a little to his left according to your own analysis of the scene? And seeing that those two shots again were aimed in a downward trajectory then it is possible that he was going downstairs at the time.

Who runs down the stairs away from someone with a gun with their left side facing the killer?  You can't even walk that way you would have to hop and probably would fall and break your ass.  If you are running away your back would be to the shooter. The easiest part of the body to aim at is the chest, it is the biggest part.  If someone is running then you aim at the back, if facing you then the chest.

The head is a shot for when you are close and indeed the jaw shot was delivered less than a foot away.  The shot into his side and his shoulder are the ones that were 2 feet away.   

Moreover because ALL shots to Ralph were aimed at him in a downward trajectory wouldn't it be safe to assume that it matters not how tall the assailant was and could just as easily have been Sheila as well as Jeremy?

Jeremy could potentially deliver the shoulder shot while he and Nevill are both standing it is bordeline range for someone of his height.  I still would would want to test it to see.   Sheila was too short no way she could do so Nevill would have to have been sitting at the time fo rher to be able to deliver that shot.  Obviously since the jaw shot is higher that means the same thing is true about that shot with respect to Sheila.  The prosecution said that Jeremy could also fire the jaw shot with both standing.  I have my doubts, there would really need to be tests done on Jeremy to see if he could do it because that is high enough that most people his height can't.  There are variations in army reahc where the eyes are etc of people the same height but usally not enough to make a huge difference.   

In this case it doesn't particularly matter because there is no tell tale evidence to prove he was definitely sitting or standing.  If there were blood evidence that proved the wound was delivered standing that would rule out Sheila unless she were standing on something, which is unlikely.  I would not concede that point if I were his attorney because you never know what the other side will try to argue.  I like to be prepared to deal with any potential argument that could arise.

He would have to be sitting when shot in the jaw and shoulder for Sheils to have done it otherwise she had to stand on something.  Jeremy might have been able to deliver these shots with Jeremy standing but it is more likely he would not have been able to do so and that Nevill would have been sitting.

Without actually doing a test to see exactly where Jeremy would hold the gun level I can't determine it for sure because it is a borderline case and he could potentially have a higher line of sight than others his height, he could exaggerate his height...  Sheila is way off so it doesn't matter.  He is, "in the ballpark" so variation could be a big deal one way or the other.   

   

[Adam]

All there was,was the silencer and that was a fluke to begin with. It was the ideal thing to use on those who didn't know one end of a rifle from the other ( the jury ) Blind them with science--------and that's exactly what happened. One even fell asleep with boredom. Probably one of the two who thought he was innocent.

Blinding the jury with science is more likely to create reasonable doubt.