What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?

[lookout]

Adam,,why didn't Jeremy kill Sheila first knowing that she was a " nutter " and capable of doing anything,,even picking up one of the guns and shooting him.?
Afterall,,Jeremy had experienced Sheilas' psychosis in the past.

Instead,,Sheila was the last one to die,,so how do you think that came about ? You'd have thought she'd have rang the police from the upstairs office while Jeremy was downstairs bashing his father ?
Sheila had,,afterall,,her children to consider,didn't she ? So in the time it took while Jeremy was down 3 flights of stairs,,,you can't tell me that Sheila couldn't have dialled 999 and WHF,,that's all it would have taken to have got the police out.

[scipio_usmc]

Adam,,why didn't Jeremy kill Sheila first knowing that she was a " nutter " and capable of doing anything,,even picking up one of the guns and shooting him.?
Afterall,,Jeremy had experienced Sheilas' psychosis in the past.

Instead,,Sheila was the last one to die,,so how do you think that came about ? You'd have thought she'd have rang the police from the upstairs office while Jeremy was downstairs bashing his father ?
Sheila had,,afterall,,her children to consider,didn't she ? So in the time it took while Jeremy was down 3 flights of stairs,,,you can't tell me that Sheila couldn't have dialled 999 and WHF,,that's all it would have taken to have got the police out.

She was the weakest adult and on tranquilizers.  She was the least threatening adult not the most.  Nevill was the most dangerous and the struggle proves that quite clearly. 

The whole reason to use a suppressor is so that she and the boys would not be aware of anyone else being shot so that each could be taken in turn.

If she died first and police were able to figure that out then it could ruin the whole frame job. 

Jeremy was concerned if police were able to figure out the order of the killings.  So he was cognizant of the potential to do so and that likely played a role in his actions of shooting her last.

[Alias]

She was the weakest adult and on tranquilizers.  She was the least threatening adult not the most.  Nevill was the most dangerous and the struggle proves that quite clearly. 

The whole reason to use a suppressor is so that she and the boys would not be aware of anyone else being shot so that each could be taken in turn.

If she died first and police were able to figure that out then it could ruin the whole frame job. 

Jeremy was concerned if police were able to figure out the order of the killings.  So he was cognizant of the potential to do so and that likely played a role in his actions of shooting her last.

How could Jeremy possibly have COUNTED ON that Sheila and the boys did not wake up? Seems like a daunting task to enter a house and EXPECT people to be in their beds and EXPECT that they didn´t wake up when you started your rampage.
Can´t quite see it.

[grahameb]

She was the weakest adult and on tranquilizers.  She was the least threatening adult not the most.  Nevill was the most dangerous and the struggle proves that quite clearly. 

The whole reason to use a suppressor is so that she and the boys would not be aware of anyone else being shot so that each could be taken in turn.

If she died first and police were able to figure that out then it could ruin the whole frame job. 

Jeremy was concerned if police were able to figure out the order of the killings.  So he was cognizant of the potential to do so and that likely played a role in his actions of shooting her last.

If Ralph was the most threatening then why didn't Jeremy shoot him first in the head? Job done.

[Jane]

She was the weakest adult and on tranquilizers.  She was the least threatening adult not the most.  Nevill was the most dangerous and the struggle proves that quite clearly. 

The whole reason to use a suppressor is so that she and the boys would not be aware of anyone else being shot so that each could be taken in turn.

If she died first and police were able to figure that out then it could ruin the whole frame job. 

Jeremy was concerned if police were able to figure out the order of the killings.  So he was cognizant of the potential to do so and that likely played a role in his actions of shooting her last.

I had no knowledge that Sheila was on tranquilizers. I thought all the pm found was traces of marijuana and Haloperidol, which to my understanding is an anti psychotic.

[Alias]

If Ralph was the most threatening then why didn't Jeremy shoot him first in the head? Job done.

Good question.

OT - got my Colin Caffell book this weekend, can´t imagine why someone goes to the trouble of selling a book for 1p! The person still has to go trhough the trouble of packing and shipping it! Oh, well, I am happy that I got it and got it for free virtually! 

[scipio_usmc]

I had no knowledge that Sheila was on tranquilizers. I thought all the pm found was traces of marijuana and Haloperidol, which to my understanding is an anti psychotic.

Holoperidol is a tranquilizer that is used to treat anti-psychotics.  That is why an upper countering agent is needed by those on it.  This counteirng agent is what Sheila was not taking which means nothing to counter the dexterity loss, hand eye coordinaton problems and to give her any energy.     

[scipio_usmc]

If Ralph was the most threatening then why didn't Jeremy shoot him first in the head? Job done.

He tried, he hit Nevill in the face 2 times but either because of Nevill moved or he wasn't the best shot these blows did not disable him as hoped.  One shot a piece of his lip off and the other shattered his jaw and severed his voicebox. The shots that hit his shoulder, arm and side were obviously aimed at his chest not his arms. the shots did not land where hoped.  It's not as if he did't try.

 

[Jane]

Holoperidol is a tranquilizer that is used to treat anti-psychotics.  That is why an upper countering agent is needed by those on it.  This counteirng agent is what Sheila was not taking which means nothing to counter the dexterity loss, hand eye coordinaton problems and to give her any energy.   

Whilst it may HAVE a tranquilizing effect, it is primarily an anti-psychotic drug used in the treatment of schizophrenia, psychosis and behavioural problems. Doctors MAY start patients on a low dose and increase it as the patient becomes used to the effect OR start with a high dos and decrease GRADUALLY.

[Alias]

Holoperidol is a tranquilizer that is used to treat anti-psychotics.  That is why an upper countering agent is needed by those on it.  This counteirng agent is what Sheila was not taking which means nothing to counter the dexterity loss, hand eye coordinaton problems and to give her any energy.   

Haldol can have tranquilizer effects, true, but here are the most common side effects:

Side effects

Medicines and their possible side effects can affect individual people in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are known to be associated with this medicine. Just because a side effect is stated here does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.
Very common (affect more than 1 in 10 people)

    Abnormal movements of the hands, legs, face, neck and tongue, eg tremor, twitching, stiffness, rigidity, slowness or difficulty of movements (Parkinsonism or extrapyramidal effects).
    Headache.
    Difficulty sleeping (insomnia).
    Feeling agitated.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/brain-and-nervous-system/medicines/haldol.html

There are some indications that Sheila was up that night after her parents and sons went to bed. She had undigested food in her stomach + the state of her bed, which looks as if it was not slept in.

[Alias]

Haldol intramuscular injections have a half life of about 21 days. The amount of Haldol in Sheila´s system would have been about quartered when the tragdy occurred (since it was halved in the first place).

[scipio_usmc]

Haldol can have tranquilizer effects, true, but here are the most common side effects:

Side effects

Medicines and their possible side effects can affect individual people in different ways. The following are some of the side effects that are known to be associated with this medicine. Just because a side effect is stated here does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.
Very common (affect more than 1 in 10 people)

    Abnormal movements of the hands, legs, face, neck and tongue, eg tremor, twitching, stiffness, rigidity, slowness or difficulty of movements (Parkinsonism or extrapyramidal effects).
    Headache.
    Difficulty sleeping (insomnia).
    Feeling agitated.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/brain-and-nervous-system/medicines/haldol.html

There are some indications that Sheila was up that night after her parents and sons went to bed. She had undigested food in her stomach + the state of her bed, which looks as if it was not slept in.

The tranquizing properties are not side effects they are intended effect, that is how it works.  People on these drugs do not lead normal lives as you or I know it.  It just enables them to be in the world instead of locked up in a hospital.  Keeping them on drugs is seen as better than locked up and thus away from society altogether.   

The agitation and insmnia is from the countering agents.  That's why Sheila stopped taking hers. When she was on 200MG she had to have the countering agent but on 100MG she was able to do without it.  She could not sleep while on 200MG but after the reduction and stopping of the countering agent that problem subsided.

Note the dexterity problems though that you chose not to highlight.  Those problems would make loading a gun a chore let alone trying to land 25 of 25 shots successfully.

[Alias]

The tranquizing properties are not side effects they are intended effect, that is how it works.  People on these drugs do not lead normal lives as you or I know it.  It just enables them to be in the world instead of locked up in a hospital.  Keeping them on drugs is seen as better than locked up and thus away from society altogether.   

The agitation and insmnia is from the countering agents.  That's why Sheila stopped taking hers. When she was on 200MG she had to have the countering agent but on 100MG she was able to do without it.  She could not sleep while on 200MG but after the reduction and stopping of the countering agent that problem subsided.

Note the dexterity problems though that you chose not to highlight.  Those problems would make loading a gun a chore let alone trying to land 25 of 25 shots successfully.

You haven´t read my post properly. I never said that the tranquizing properties are a side effect- read it again.

No, the agitation and insomnia are not from countering agents, they are side effects from Haloperidol (read again - go to the link, if you like). The four side effects I listed are the most common, they affect one in ten on Haloperidol.

[grahameb]

Good question.

OT - got my Colin Caffell book this weekend, can´t imagine why someone goes to the trouble of selling a book for 1p! The person still has to go trhough the trouble of packing and shipping it! Oh, well, I am happy that I got it and got it for free virtually! 

If that was ebay I made the same mistake. I has a colour photocopier ink for sale. It started at 99p and I forgot about it and someone got it for 99p and I had to pack it and post it whih cost me about £3 plus ebay costs. Then the bloke said he didn't receive it and demanded a refund and then asked me if I had another one. Yeah right. As if I was going to fall for that a second time.

[Alias]

If that was ebay I made the same mistake. I has a colour photocopier ink for sale. It started at 99p and I forgot about it and someone got it for 99p and I had to pack it and post it whih cost me about £3 plus ebay costs. Then the bloke said he didn't receive it and demanded a refund and then asked me if I had another one. Yeah right. As if I was going to fall for that a second time.

OH NO, Grahame, bummer!
No, it was from Amazon.co.uk. There was more than one seller who had the book at 1p. In fact it ranged in price from 1p to 40 pounds!!!