Author Topic: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?  (Read 63963 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #105 on: March 30, 2014, 12:15:PM »
Sheila starts shooting people upstairs (hitting the target) with a not very powerful rifle.

Tall & strong Neville runs downstairs to phone Jeremy. Sleeping like a log three miles away. Rather than tackle Sheila.

What the f_ _ _ ?
Yes of course.

Offline Aunt Agatha

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #106 on: March 30, 2014, 12:20:PM »
I was of the understanding that the reason why Jeremys' status from Cat B back to Cat A,,was because the relatives wrote to either EP or the prison officer telling them how THEY'D be let down by the justice system if this made a difference in his bid for freedom,,and that THEY'D be forever fearful of this happening. RWB was still alive at the time. Says it all really.
So on the strength of what the relatives had to say,his category was again increased to " dangerous prisoner ".What chance does the man stand ?




What power that family has!

How did they become so powerful that one word from them and his Cat A is re-instated?

One wonders whether they have information or know something.......


Offline lookout

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #107 on: March 30, 2014, 12:42:PM »
Yes,AA,a bit baffling to say the least,,though the then Patriarch,is now no longer,so whether any future " movements " whatever they might be,concerning Jeremy,,mightn't have the same clout without him,I don't know.
There were one or two officers who were befriended by the relatives, at the time.Dinners,suppers and all that.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 12:44:PM by lookout »

Offline nugnug

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #108 on: March 30, 2014, 12:45:PM »
they couldent very well make him a cat b prisoner and give him a whole life tarrif.

how could they say a cat b prisoner was never fit for realise.

Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #109 on: March 30, 2014, 12:48:PM »
Yes,AA,a bit baffling to say the least,,though the then Patriarch,is now no longer,so whether any future " movements " whatever they might be,concerning Jeremy,,mightn't have the same clout without him,I don't know.
There were one or two officers who were befriended by the relatives, at the time.Dinners,suppers and all that.



Lookout, my instincts are that Ann has taken over and I believe her to be enough of "a chip off the old block" to ensure that his wishes are carried forward.

Offline lookout

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #110 on: March 30, 2014, 01:00:PM »
More than likely,April,,seeing as she wears the trousers in that family.

I've actually found the bit about Jeremy being re-instated back as a Cat A. It's a link written by davidjamessmith.net.
It was Jeremys' cousins who'd complained to EP,,where EP told the family to make their feelings known. So in effect,the relatives were guided by what EP had said to them. Naturally,Jeremy was pretty resentful and said his relatives were being vindictive.

Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #111 on: March 30, 2014, 01:05:PM »
More than likely,April,,seeing as she wears the trousers in that family.

I've actually found the bit about Jeremy being re-instated back as a Cat A. It's a link written by davidjamessmith.net.
It was Jeremys' cousins who'd complained to EP,,where EP told the family to make their feelings known. So in effect,the relatives were guided by what EP had said to them. Naturally,Jeremy was pretty resentful and said his relatives were being vindictive.

Presumably, had there been the option of a death sentence, they'd have insisted on it.

Offline Aunt Agatha

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #112 on: March 30, 2014, 03:17:PM »
More than likely,April,,seeing as she wears the trousers in that family.

I've actually found the bit about Jeremy being re-instated back as a Cat A. It's a link written by davidjamessmith.net.
It was Jeremys' cousins who'd complained to EP,,where EP told the family to make their feelings known. So in effect,the relatives were guided by what EP had said to them. Naturally,Jeremy was pretty resentful and said his relatives were being vindictive.







I could be wrong, but I believe it was David who spoke out on national tv about it.  Who advised him or otherwise is not the point as I wouldn't believe it anyway........

One begs to ask the question, 'Has this happened to anyone else before?'    Oh, besides those cases involving further cover-ups.

Offline nugnug

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #113 on: March 30, 2014, 03:56:PM »
i wonder weather it is the family or weather its the influence of other people involved in the case.

Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #114 on: March 30, 2014, 04:06:PM »






I could be wrong, but I believe it was David who spoke out on national tv about it.  Who advised him or otherwise is not the point as I wouldn't believe it anyway........

One begs to ask the question, 'Has this happened to anyone else before?'    Oh, besides those cases involving further cover-ups.



AA, having spent time studying these siblings I am wholly convinced that it's Ann who wears the trousers and is very MUCH her father's daughter. David DID speak on National television about it. Let's say he wouldn't win prizes for oration and as he seemed not comfortable with the words he was saying, I can only presume that they weren't his own. As to whether this "has happened to anyone before" a farming friend assures me that there isn't a farming family/DYNASTY? anywhere where money hasn't caused generational problems.

Mason Doyle

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #115 on: March 30, 2014, 08:58:PM »
One question Mason.

What was Sheila doing when Neville made his 'mysterious' call to Jeremy ?

If it is in you're book, you do not need to answer. If it is not in you're book, you need to answer.

I created a thread on this recently. No plausible answer was given.

Neville's implausible words suggest Sheila was about to or had already started shooting people. Neville then deciding to ring Jeremy !!! ???
 

If there is no realistic possible answer to this question, everything else is irrelevent.

Nice question Adam. I shall do as you ask, and therefore shall not answer. However, I wasn't there, nor were you (at least I hope you weren't), so its pure conjecture based on nothing but 'allegiance' whatever anyone claims.

Many people proclaim themselves 'experts' in this case, reality is, people are basing so called 'new evidence' on the inarticulation of others, or police cock ups - which, unlike you seem to accept - are very common, sadly all of this affects innocent and guilty lives.  Yet people want to believe the system is flawless - believe me, it isn't.  People won't accept this because its scary, it goes against the grain, they want to feel safe and secure.  I worked in the police for three decades, I hasten to add - with an unblemished record. But would I trust a coppers word then or now, no I wouldn't. Some, it has been proven in court, would rob their own family all for the sake of money. 

People are dicks in all walks of life, not only in the police, look at politicians, councillors, thespians, singing stars et al, for me, that's what makes the world such an interesting place - liars, cheats and oddballs exist in walks of society, they are not exclusive to the incarcerated criminal community.  Despite this, I believe most people are rightly in prison, as we now know, those who shout loudest about their innocence aren't always what they seem.  Jeremy Bamber was found guilty on evidence in a court of law, thats a fact. The question remains, was the provenance of that evidence true?

You can make all the claims you like and copy what others say because it sounds acceptable, you even say you read book reviews before you buy a book. Let me tell you most book reviews are penned by people fuelled with jealousy and insecurities, many are known to the author, writers used to accept them, but no longer, why? Because people no longer put their name to them, they lack credibility without the provenance of real identity.
Sad thing is, until you actually research this case, live it every day and night for years, listen to Jeremy Bamber, the police, witnesses, barristers and people it affected, I've done them all, then you cannot appreciate the pressures all of these individuals endure. 

Opinion is great, I accept it, but living with this case day and night as I have, and there are a few people on here who know what I've gone through, makes you take stock and realise the traumatic affect that still endures. I had no allegiance at the outset, I have no allegiance now, I have researched this entire case objectively. I get on well with Jeremy, we laugh and talk together, but then I laugh with Ronald DeFeo too, he admits he murdered his family, each year I get cards off the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and serial killers such as Peter Sutcliffe - juxtaposition of morality or what?. In this case, me and Jeremy are two different people, I absolutely liked Stan Jones when I spoke to and interviewed him, doesn't make either Stan or Jeremy right in what they may or may not have done.

Jeremy is the only person on this planet who knows the truth, not the relatives, not the courts, not the media, and certainly not the red.  The evidence at court was crap, you know it, we all know it, however, that means nothing because a jury of Jeremy's peers, lay people who were not instructed correctly, believed it. Therefore it all becomes fact.  In most circumstances, without such pressure, most people would err on the side of caution, jury's cannot, pressure is on them to deliver a verdict. 

That's just my thoughts Adam, I know you have your own but trust me, an open mind is the best one to keep in everything involving the establishment, its my belief there is no such things as coincidence. Things do get contrived.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 09:13:PM by Caroline »

Offline jon

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #116 on: March 30, 2014, 09:14:PM »
Mason , did you ever put it to Stan Jones , that the evidence put to the court trying JB , was crap ?

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #117 on: March 30, 2014, 09:19:PM »
Grahame, as you state: 'you have known this case from the beginning'...you have 'not once changed your allegiance.' Thats good, I respect that.  However, I don't think Bob ever had an allegiance, (unless your person says different), nor do I, like me , he researched and came to a conclusion, we differ in our conclusions, so what, thats life. I don't bear grudges or question his integrity or patronisingly call him Woof Woof because we differ in opinion. Simples really. 

Having a sly dig at me or my book doesn't help or work to be honest, you say you were there at the beginning, great.  Me, I wasn't, I didn't witness the murders, I simply attended the trial, spoke to cops, witnesses et al, at the time, and much later, I also, post trial, communicated with Jeremy Bamber, thats my professional role, I profile serious offenders.  So maybe what 'I have to offer' is never going to match your own in depth knowledge. It's all about opinions Grahame, not damning people because someone else tells you something which may or may not be true. Easiest way to find out if it is true, ask them direct. That's what I did with Jeremy and everyone else, I questioned them face to face on many things they said and claimed.

Ultimately, what matters to me, I don't want my friends unfairly slated or their integrity questioned, if you have something to say about Bob then give him a chance to respond, you are appealing for Jeremy to get a fair hearing, then perhaps you should do so yourself. Contact Bob, but word of advice, don't call him Woof Woof.
What a great topic Caroline, even bought me out of retirement. Mason you have hit the nail on the head I don't think anyone is 100 per cent sure about what happened and yes I changed from 60/40 innocent to 60/40 guilty when I had conversation with 2 very respected personnel that worked at full Sutton who I hope to meet again in the near future?

Offline Adam

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #118 on: March 30, 2014, 09:21:PM »
Nice question Adam. I shall do as you ask, and therefore shall not answer. However, I wasn't there, nor were you (at least I hope you weren't), so its pure conjecture based on nothing but 'allegiance' whatever anyone claims.

Many people proclaim themselves 'experts' in this case, reality is, people are basing so called 'new evidence' on the inarticulation of others, or police cock ups - which, unlike you seem to accept - are very common, sadly all of this affects innocent and guilty lives.  Yet people want to believe the system is flawless - believe me, it isn't.  People won't accept this because its scary, it goes against the grain, they want to feel safe and secure.  I worked in the police for three decades, I hasten to add - with an unblemished record. But would I trust a coppers word then or now, no I wouldn't. Some, it has been proven in court, would rob their own family all for the sake of money. 

People are dicks in all walks of life, not only in the police, look at politicians, councillors, thespians, singing stars et al, for me, that's what makes the world such an interesting place - liars, cheats and oddballs exist in walks of society, they are not exclusive to the incarcerated criminal community.  Despite this, I believe most people are rightly in prison, as we now know, those who shout loudest about their innocence aren't always what they seem.  Jeremy Bamber was found guilty on evidence in a court of law, thats a fact. The question remains, was the provenance of that evidence true?

You can make all the claims you like and copy what others say because it sounds acceptable, you even say you read book reviews before you buy a book. Let me tell you most book reviews are penned by people fuelled with jealousy and insecurities, many are known to the author, writers used to accept them, but no longer, why? Because people no longer put their name to them, they lack credibility without the provenance of real identity.
Sad thing is, until you actually research this case, live it every day and night for years, listen to Jeremy Bamber, the police, witnesses, barristers and people it affected, I've done them all, then you cannot appreciate the pressures all of these individuals endure. 

Opinion is great, I accept it, but living with this case day and night as I have, and there are a few people on here who know what I've gone through, makes you take stock and realise the traumatic affect that still endures. I had no allegiance at the outset, I have no allegiance now, I have researched this entire case objectively. I get on well with Jeremy, we laugh and talk together, but then I laugh with Ronald DeFeo too, he admits he murdered his family, each year I get cards off the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and serial killers such as Peter Sutcliffe - juxtaposition of morality or what?. In this case, me and Jeremy are two different people, I absolutely liked Stan Jones when I spoke to and interviewed him, doesn't make either Stan or Jeremy right in what they may or may not have done.

Jeremy is the only person on this planet who knows the truth, not the relatives, not the courts, not the media, and certainly not the red.  The evidence at court was crap, you know it, we all know it, however, that means nothing because a jury of Jeremy's peers, lay people who were not instructed correctly, believed it. Therefore it all becomes fact.  In most circumstances, without such pressure, most people would err on the side of caution, jury's cannot, pressure is on them to deliver a verdict. 

That's just my thoughts Adam, I know you have your own but trust me, an open mind is the best one to keep in everything involving the establishment, its my belief there is no such things as coincidence. Things do get contrived.

Thank you Mason.

Is a plausible answer in you're book. Or you do not want to answer ?

Everyone knows what happened. Who was shot or beaten where, what time Jeremy said he was telephoned by Neville. Surely a simple question of what was Sheila doing when Neville made his call to Jeremy can be answered. However we now know Neville made two calls, according to Jeremy.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 09:25:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #119 on: March 30, 2014, 09:28:PM »
Nice question Adam. I shall do as you ask, and therefore shall not answer. However, I wasn't there, nor were you (at least I hope you weren't), so its pure conjecture based on nothing but 'allegiance' whatever anyone claims.

Many people proclaim themselves 'experts' in this case, reality is, people are basing so called 'new evidence' on the inarticulation of others, or police cock ups - which, unlike you seem to accept - are very common, sadly all of this affects innocent and guilty lives.  Yet people want to believe the system is flawless - believe me, it isn't.  People won't accept this because its scary, it goes against the grain, they want to feel safe and secure.  I worked in the police for three decades, I hasten to add - with an unblemished record. But would I trust a coppers word then or now, no I wouldn't. Some, it has been proven in court, would rob their own family all for the sake of money. 

People are dicks in all walks of life, not only in the police, look at politicians, councillors, thespians, singing stars et al, for me, that's what makes the world such an interesting place - liars, cheats and oddballs exist in walks of society, they are not exclusive to the incarcerated criminal community.  Despite this, I believe most people are rightly in prison, as we now know, those who shout loudest about their innocence aren't always what they seem.  Jeremy Bamber was found guilty on evidence in a court of law, thats a fact. The question remains, was the provenance of that evidence true?

You can make all the claims you like and copy what others say because it sounds acceptable, you even say you read book reviews before you buy a book. Let me tell you most book reviews are penned by people fuelled with jealousy and insecurities, many are known to the author, writers used to accept them, but no longer, why? Because people no longer put their name to them, they lack credibility without the provenance of real identity.
Sad thing is, until you actually research this case, live it every day and night for years, listen to Jeremy Bamber, the police, witnesses, barristers and people it affected, I've done them all, then you cannot appreciate the pressures all of these individuals endure. 

Opinion is great, I accept it, but living with this case day and night as I have, and there are a few people on here who know what I've gone through, makes you take stock and realise the traumatic affect that still endures. I had no allegiance at the outset, I have no allegiance now, I have researched this entire case objectively. I get on well with Jeremy, we laugh and talk together, but then I laugh with Ronald DeFeo too, he admits he murdered his family, each year I get cards off the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales, and serial killers such as Peter Sutcliffe - juxtaposition of morality or what?. In this case, me and Jeremy are two different people, I absolutely liked Stan Jones when I spoke to and interviewed him, doesn't make either Stan or Jeremy right in what they may or may not have done.

Jeremy is the only person on this planet who knows the truth, not the relatives, not the courts, not the media, and certainly not the red.  The evidence at court was crap, you know it, we all know it, however, that means nothing because a jury of Jeremy's peers, lay people who were not instructed correctly, believed it. Therefore it all becomes fact.  In most circumstances, without such pressure, most people would err on the side of caution, jury's cannot, pressure is on them to deliver a verdict. 

That's just my thoughts Adam, I know you have your own but trust me, an open mind is the best one to keep in everything involving the establishment, its my belief there is no such things as coincidence. Things do get contrived.

'The evidence in court was crap'

I bet you were itching to contribute to my recent thread on whether the trial was fair & whether evidence was hidden.

I would have appreciated you're input as no one gave any evidence of unfairness or withheld evidence. But I am sure all will be revealed in the book.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2014, 09:37:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.