What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?

[lookout]

Thank you, Susan. 

P.S. Didn´t want to read other posts before I made mine. You mention giving the keys to the relatives - of course he would not have given the keys to ANYBODY if he were the killer! In the back of his mind, the thought that he might have overlooked something would have constantly gnawed at him; I also think he would have been compelled to go back to the house to go through it, just to make sure. He wouldn´t let the family have free access, that is an absurd and illogical thought!

This is right,Alias.A burglar or a murderer will invariably re-trace their steps in case they've left any vital evidence. Sometimes this is the way some of them are caught,,as the police know that for whatever reason,the perpetrator will return.

[susan]

wilf  quite right no way would Jeremy dump Julie for another maiden had he confessed his horrendous crime to her not rocket science just pure common sense he would have kept her on his arm till it was safe to dump her.

[haughton]

Wilf, you say that nobody's that stupid . The police believed her! They were cerlain that Shiela was the culprit until Julie told them that Jeremy told her that he was going to do it. Yes, unbelieveable, but I heard today about a copper tazering a blind man because he thought that his white stick was a Samairi sword !
Recently, a youth was arrested by a mounted copper in  Milton Keynes becasehe refered to his horse as being "queer "We hear of other stupid actions by the police quite often. The decent coppers must squirm with embarassment on hearing some of them.
 Under the heading of "you could'nt make them up"  ;  This copper stepped into the road  a nd stopped a motorist, he said "this is a one way street,sir"  The motorist pointed-out that he was,infact, only going one way. On hearing this bit of logic the copper let him go
           
 joke
   

[lookout]

  Good bit of logic.

[Alias]

well said   plus would Jeremy ditch Julie so quickly if he had told her he was a mass murderer and still expect her to keep quiet? nobodys that stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!

wilf

Thanks, wilf, and yes, another aspect that makes little sense. Did he really think that Julie would just quietly go away, knowing he had killed his entire family? She might go to the police - or she might blackmail him, both dangerous options!
Which leads to the next question: why wasn´t Julie really afraid for HER life? She tried to smother him!!! An alleged mass murderer!!!
Then, after they split up, she let Jeremy and Brett Collins help her move her belongings when she changed address. Rather careless of her!
The truth is, she wasn´t afraid of Jeremy, not the least bit. She knows he never killed anybody!

[susan]

Alias after reading all the posts tonight on this thread I am asking myself just what Jeremy Bamber's Defence were doing at the trial did they not have the same thoughts as us especially about Julie.

[Alias]

Alias after reading all the posts tonight on this thread I am asking myself just what Jeremy Bamber's Defence were doing at the trial did they not have the same thoughts as us especially about Julie.

In my opinion, Jeremy´s defence team was appallingly bad. I don´t know why they did such a poor job, but one important factor is that they may not have believed him in the first place. After all, his entire living family was AGAINST HIM. Mostly people have their own family members as a strong support team; what Jeremy had was a family that worked overtime to get the shovel under him.
That automatically makes you look bad in other people´s eyes - if you don´t think far enough and take into consideration the "cuckoo" aspect and how the family begrudged him and Sheila their upbringing in THEIR family.
This is very tragic, and YES, Jeremy was incredibly unlucky.

[susan]

Alias I have often wondered if Jeremy and his Defence team were too complacent and did not think for one moment he would be convicted.  No forensic evidence to link him to the crime scene and maybe they thought the prosecutions evidence was so weak it would not convict.  I have always thought that if your Defence thinks you are Guilty they will do their utmost to have you found not guilty.  It is all a big mystery to me how all this happened and obviously two members of the Jury were not convinced one more and he would have walked free.

[Jane]

In my opinion, Jeremy´s defence team was appallingly bad. I don´t know why they did such a poor job, but one important factor is that they may not have believed him in the first place. After all, his entire living family was AGAINST HIM. Mostly people have their own family members as a strong support team; what Jeremy had was a family that worked overtime to get the shovel under him.
That automatically makes you look bad in other people´s eyes - if you don´t think far enough and take into consideration the "cuckoo" aspect and how the family begrudged him and Sheila their upbringing in THEIR family.
This is very tragic, and YES, Jeremy was incredibly unlucky.

Alias,I know I'm veering slightly off topic, but it think the possibility of collaboration between the prosecution and defence should be considered and given how widely it was known that the relatives were against him, it's very possible that the defence were told that the crown had MORE than enough evidence to put him away so there was no point in them going overboard with their defence.

[Mason Doyle]

I'm going to hold out on answering myself because I's like to hear other members views.

Hi, what an excellent post Caroline.  Probably, in my opinion,  one of the best ever published on any related site on the internet. At the outset of my research, it was a question I continually asked myself - or is it good propaganda?  Everyone seems to have an answer or a belief, so this should be a really interesting thread.

Before anyone asks, my book is done, its with the publisher and legals now. Still no date for publication, nothing more to say or add at present.

However, I can't wait for Carol Ann Lee's book - due out in a couple of weeks - Mainstream Publishings last ever book, its said to be the ultimate and definitive account. Then we have Hunter's revelations, so three, at least, new books on the horizon and I've heard of four more efforts to encourage publishers of other literary works. Lots to focus on for pro and anti supporters I would imagine.

Lets never forget though, innocent people and children lost their lives and futures through this crime.

As an aside and update, it's been broadly publicised (gossiped) through some people using other communication sources on here, I'm not on the forum that often, reality is, I'm a  busy professional writer, I'm commissioned for other projects, so must move on.

You have a great platform here to positively argue the case for Jeremy Bamber, most posters do just that, I respect those, as I do with some of those who argue his guilt on the red. However, on here, things like not answering the original authors posts and answering a respondent instead is pathetic, there is no room for personal vendettas on here. It's what puts fresh posters off, and its existence doesn't help Jeremy Bamber.

Apologies if giving my opinion offends, none is meant, but its my belief that you need to stay proactive and all importantly, be together.  Time for a leader perhaps?  I'll let you all know when there is more news on the book, oh, and Adam, trust me, my book is coming out.

MD


 

[Jan]

I agree with lots that has been said - but the one thing I can not believe is that the police were outside that house for so long when as far as they were concerned those poor children were in danger. If there was no noise , no movement  at all then I can not accept they would wait for so long before going in - which leads me to the conclusion SOMETHING must have been going on.

Nice post MD - really looking forward to your book.

[mertol22]

Money and Land  I got that from a ex Policeman  more or less every war since humans have existed these two factors come into play as events in the Ukraine are folding Jeremy is an innocent man.

[nugnug]

what really did it for me was some of the incredibly dodgy people who were arguing the prosecution case with so much passion..

i don't mean the guilty posters here i mean in various other places.

[Adam]

Hi nugnug  I agree when I joined the forum in 2012 I had no knowledge on the Bamber case at all but after the extensive reading I have done I cannot put Jeremy Bamber at the scene, the bike, wet suit entering by the window is all quite farcical and I have not seen any ev idence that puts him at the scene.  The amount of items destroyed and held under PII tells me EP have so much to hide and that he was set up.  All I hear about he did not cry at the funeral he drank champagne went on holiday does not make him a murderer it is propaganda put out by the guilty brigade as they have no concrete evidence to throw at us.  Jeremy Bamber did himself no favours I agree I saw him as a very immature attention seeking young man.  Had he been guilty he would not have said he went out shooting rabbits, he would not have confessed to Julie and told her of his intentions 12 months earlier he would not have left a silencer than might incriminate him and he certainly would not have given his extended family keys to the property.  Taff Jones believed Jeremy to be innocent and would not be silenced so he was therefore removed from the case. Julie had all criminal charges dropped against her need I say more.  The Jury were not given the true facts of the case and were misled and not to sure that the Judge knew the full facts either the whole trial was a sham. Jeremy Bamber did not have a criminal mind and therefore would not have tried to give himself an alibi with the phone calls.  The phone calls happened and EP know they DID.

The bike was brought to Jeremys house just before the massacre. Even though the relationship was coming to a close.

He did drink Champagne & go on a cannabis buying holiday directly after the massacre.


I have just said why he told Julie.

The shooting rabbits story set the scene for Sheila picking up a loaded rifle.

Please expand on what facts the jury were not given & why the 19 day trial was a sham.

[Adam]

There are so many reasons for me. I can try to list them, but I will probably forget some points.

1. I don´t think that Jeremy would have been able to enter the farmhouse and EXPECT to control three aduts and two children. With an accomplice I can see it, alone, no; but since the case against Jeremy is that he committed the murders alone, I have to conclude that he couldn´t have done it on his own - or had the "guts".

2. Cannot see what Sheila was doing while Jeremy was killing off the rest of her family - just waiting her turn? I don´t think so!

3.Sheila´s appearance in death and the way she was shot. She looks vastly different than her parents. Nevill and June looked messy with an air of despair about them. Sheila looked at peace and tranquil, not a trace of fight, it is all so neat to look at that it has to strike you. How could Jeremy manage that - how could he manage to shoot her in such an awkward position?

4.The fact that Sheila was shot twice speaks against Jeremy having done it if he wanted to stage a suicide. What moron shoots a victim twice and expects it to be ruled a suicide?

5.Julie. If Jeremy had really told her so much about his plans of killing his family, she would have warned the Bambers and Sheila - as we know, she did not. Or did she really think it was all right to kill them all off including the little boys she had read bed-time stories.

6.The fact that the police initially and for quite a while saw the case as a murder-suicide case. The evidence must have supported that.

7.The way the most crucial piece of evidence was found and handled by relatives who had A LOT to gain by a guilty verdict. Found after police already had searched gun cupboard.

8.The way Jeremy behaved after the tragedy. If he had done it, he would have gone out of his way to appear innocent. As it was, he just kept on with his life as the arrogant young man he was.

9.Sheila´s illness. She was seriously mentally ill, contrary to what guilters say. She didn´t receive heavy medication for nothing, she wasn´t hospitalized for nothing. Paranoid Schizophrenics most frequently target their closest family if they have violent impulses. Sometimes they even plan to kill family members.

10.The "coincidence" that Sheila said: "All people are evil and must die". The fact that she thought her sons were the "Devil´s children", that they were "women haters", that she was afraid they would rape and kill her show with all clarity that something was seriously wrong. It should have raised alarm bells, she should not have been allowed to be with them unsupervised! As it was, the doctors washed their hands after the fact, claiming that Sheila would never harm her children. Children who had bruises, were neglected and had dark and strange thoughts themselves, which anyone can see for themselves from their sinister drawings.

Oh god. I don't have to answer all these old chestnuts do I ? Again.

Of course he could do it alone. He was fully dressed, fully loaded & ready. Everyone else was sleeping.

Sheila was cowering in the bedroom corner, after hearing the downstairs fight. Or woken & taken to the bedroom.

Sheila looked dead to me.


The pathologist in court said Sheila would have sufferred extreme shock & pain from the first shot. Oh I forgot, the gun went off accidentially. Directly into the other side.  Or it was the dog.

Julie did not believe Jeremy would do it & was all talk. She was wrong. Is that a crime ?

Jeremy had lead them into the murder suicide mindset.  The judge said this.

Why an earth would the police believe a nice boy like Jeremy would massacre his family ?

Jeremy had lead them into the murder suicide mindset.  The judge said this.

Why an earth would the police believe a nice boy like Jeremy would massacre his family ?

The relatives were already rich.

Did they have criminal records ? If not then they all agreed in unison to become big time criminals & fraudsters four days after the massacre.

None of the psychiatrists hired by the defence saud Sheila was capable of going on such a murderous rampage. She had not seen a psychiatrist for 18 weeks. Perhaps she was feeling better. She was still taking medication.