Did Jeremy hate June ?

[Jane]

The title of this thread is VERY misleading - we don't know if he did or if he didn't hate June!

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

Caroline/Alias, you're both correct. The only times we hear "hate" mentioned is by others who SAY Jeremy hated June so all we have is their opinion, which like the word "NEVER" that I keep banging on about is a very sweeping statement and very likely to be an exaggeration.

[Alias]

Never seen that photo before . I will have to post it every time Adam says they had not spoken for years ( sorry some author said it)

It is obviously not true!
Just noticed now - one of the twins is in the low left corner, bless them.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, it undoubtedly IS a sorry tale and that's just the very small part of it we know about. I've been wondering about those things we don't yet know and I've just realized that, until now, I haven't found the scapegoat. My mind first went to Jeremy but I think that's a mistake. I think it was more likely to have been Sheila. We don't here of any disruption in Jeremy's school life. He may not have liked Greshams, but he wasn't expelled and he didn't run away. I'm wondering if Sheila resented Jeremy's arrival in the family and made her feelings felt by making demands and getting her needs met, making herself the "bad" child. This would have made Jeremy the "good" child, however "good" children don't get parental attention in the same way as "bad" children because "bad" children know how to get parental attention. In later years, the parents will say of the "good" child, of whom they were SO proud, that they were no trouble and always happy to play contentedly on their own. They actually didn't have a choice. The "good" child, as an adult will talk about how its' parents took no notice of it and spent all their time with the "bad" sibling. I can't help wondering if this was how it was with Jeremy and Sheila.....................I will just add the rider that this situation doesn't automatically produce murderers.

The siblings had separate interests and Sheila was far more wrapped up in her own little world to be  jealous of Jeremy. True we don't really know what went on behind closed doors,but as Dr. Ferguson  believed Sheila had too much to live for to kill herself and take everyone with her,though admittedly Sheila's health is one of the Defence's strongest cards and I don't  blame them for playing it.

[Steve_uk]

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

Or it could be that June's smile was directed at the twins and  Jeremy had just entered the room,hence no chair(he looks as if he's stooping) and an inquisitiveness at trying to read June' s mind rather than a beaming smile. I would suggest that this photograph was taken before the well of money ran dry and Jeremy saw his predestined future stretching out ahead of him.

[Alias]

Or it could be that June's smile was directed at the twins and  Jeremy had just entered the room,hence no chair(he looks as if he's stooping) and an inquisitiveness at trying to read June' s mind rather than a beaming smile. I would suggest that this  photograph was taken before the well of money ran dry and Jeremy saw his predestined future stretching out ahead of him.

Your imagination knows no bounds! LOL

[Jan]

I think you could read anything you want into the photo - if you are that way inclined. But it means nothing.

It just looks like a normal happy family photo to me.

Which makes the consequence ( whoever you think did it) very sad.

[tyler]

What an ironic thread considering it was Sheila and NOT Jeremy that didn't get on with June! It is stated in Sheila's doctors wit stats. I can't source the relevant statement at the moment as not on a pc,but I'm certain his statement mentions Sheila's feelings towards June and also how distressed she felt whenever she had to stay at whf. Colin confirms this also in his book. He said that whenever she stayed there it always set her back mentally. It is also interesting that those closest to the Bamber's,ie Jean,Barbara,Colin etc have never once said that Jeremy and June did not get on with each other. 

[nugnug]

this is all based on here say from person who dident really know him that well.

[tyler]

With regards the door keys that Adam keeps banging on about,there were only two. One was found in the lock on the morning of the murders and the spare was kept in the shed. I don't see how Jeremy would need to be given a key as there was always somebody in or around the farmhouse and Nevill had an office in the house where everything was run from. The back (side) door was the main door in use and would have always been unlocked when Jeremy arrived at the farm for work,hence no need for his own key.

[Alias]

I´ll just ask people this: after you moved from your parents´ house, did/do you still have keys for their apartment/house, whatever it was/is?
I haven´t had keys to my mother´s house after I moved out. Why would I, it is HER house? I don´t live there anymore.

[Caroline]

I´ll just ask people this: after you moved from your parents´ house, did/do you still have keys for their apartment/house, whatever it was/is?
I haven´t had keys to my mother´s house after I moved out. Why would I, it is HER house? I don´t live there anymore.

No, my dad asked for them so they would have a spare.

[tyler]

Hi Alias,yes I did. Especially once I had my children,they didn't like the thought of us all standing on the doorstep if we arrived before them or if they'd had to pop out quickly etc. 

[Caroline]

Hi Alias,yes I did. Especially once I had my children,they didn't like the thought of us all standing on the doorstep if we arrived before them or if they'd had to pop out quickly etc.

I can understand that - I guess if I'd lived close enough to pop round I would have kept the key. I can't see why Jeremy would have needed on. I imagine there was always someone there - farms seem to be like that.

[Adam]

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

The picture is also on the 'Crimes that shook Britain'video.

Jeremy with light brown hair. AE & Julie saying he dyed it dark black a few days before the massacre.

[Adam]

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

It is pretty conclusive that Jeremy hated June.

Mary Mugford, Julie Mugford & James Richards testified this in court.

Ann Eatons's WS said Jeremy painted an unfairly poor picture of June to the police.

Jeremy said himself in court he had a difficult relationship with June. Since the conviction the best he has been able to say is he was a mummies boy, pre Greshams.