foster care.

[Jane]

I have a lot of questions I would like to ask Colin. Seems that the boys had bruises and burns (or at least one) on them, which is horrible. Did he see those? I wonder what those poor boys went through with a very ill mother who thought they were the Devil´s children and might rape and kill her.

I'm of the opinion that the twins' life between Colin and Sheila was totally chaotic and lacked any for of discipline or boundaries. I don't mean they didn't love them but between Sheila's volatility and Colin's artistic temperament, they simply didn't know how to care for them. My ex was BRILLIANT with his children when he felt like it but he could just as easily forget they were there.

[maggie]

It nags at me, I feel so bad for Nicholas and Daniel. I think they were let down badly.

I know, it's horrid to think of them in that flat with Sheila (at the very least) being incapable at times of being available for them, not able to get them up for school in the morning alone is dreadfully stressful for children. I'm not surprised June and Nevill were worried to death. I would imagine the twins were happy enough running wild at the farm. Often quoted is Colin claiming June frightened them with her prayers etc. My generation said prayers each night by the bed but we were loved and secure so we didn't think twice about it. True my Mum and Dad had a healthy attitude to religion while June didn't but it seems strange to me that Colin  cited this as abusive to the boys  however as far as I know didn't discuss Sheila's inability to give her children the secure love they needed. If the drawings by the twins show their psychological disturbance, who disturbed them, the grandmother they saw for a short time occasionally wbo went on about God a lot or the mentally ill mother they lived with?  Poor little boys, Poor Sheila.

[lookout]

There's no getting away from it that it was a heartbreaking life for Sheila and the boys. Poor woman had definitely reached the end of her tether,,of that,there is no doubt so far as I'm concerned,,and Jeremy wouldn't have been given a second thought regarding the consequences of that night.

[Jane]

There's no getting away from it that it was a heartbreaking life for Sheila and the boys. Poor woman had definitely reached the end of her tether,,of that,there is no doubt so far as I'm concerned,,and Jeremy wouldn't have been given a second thought regarding the consequences of that night.

And at the end of her tether, who KNOWS what she was hearing in her head? Whilst we can't categorically know that she was, we know that schizophrenics DO and we also know that the meds she was on to prevent psychotic episodes and may have prevented the "voices" were at a dangerously low level, made lower by that she was due another injection that week. We know it's highly likely that her childrens' care was discussed but we DON'T know what her confused brain was hearing and what she was being told. It's possible that any action on her part was fear, rather than anger, related.

[maggie]

There's no getting away from it that it was a heartbreaking life for Sheila and the boys. Poor woman had definitely reached the end of her tether,,of that,there is no doubt so far as I'm concerned,,and Jeremy wouldn't have been given a second thought regarding the consequences of that night.

hi lookout. It's amazing how the symptoms of Sheila's illness are brushed under the carpet just as June and Neville, understandably did the same but that was early 1980s and they were living in a generally unenlightened country area. Surely in 2014 we should be more open minded and accept mental illness and it's symptoms/side effects are different from physical illness but no more of a disgrace. Sheila needed real professional support to help her and her children to cope. June and Neville, Colin Caffel  needed professional help to understand her illness and how to best support eacb other. No one is attacking or accusing Sheila when they suggest she was responsible, it's a search for the truth, not a witch hunt.

[maggie]

And at the end of her tether, who KNOWS what she was hearing in her head? Whilst we can't categorically know that she was, we know that schizophrenics DO and we also know that the meds she was on to prevent psychotic episodes and may have prevented the "voices" were at a dangerously low level, made lower by that she was due another injection that week. We know it's highly likely that her childrens' care was discussed but we DON'T know what her confused brain was hearing and what she was being told. It's possible that any action on her part was fear, rather than anger, related.

Yes April, if Sheila had been given her full dose of haloperidol and her meds to counteract her discoordination it's highly lkely she would have coped to a point with the latest emotional disasters in her life. The low haloperidol (seranace) meant she didn't have enough in her system to counteract her psychosis and quiet the voices in her head. June was used to Sheila's irrational and unpredictable behaviour so what HAD happened which caused her so much concern at that time she needed to discus it with her sister Pamela?

[Jane]

Yes April, if Sheila had been given her full dose of haloperidol and her meds to counteract her discoordination it's highly lkely she would have coped to a point with the latest emotional disasters in her life. The low haloperidol (seranace) meant she didn't have enough in her system to counteract her psychosis and quiet the voices in her head. June was used to Sheila's irrational and unpredictable behaviour so what HAD happened which caused her so much concern at that time she needed to discus it with her sister Pamela?

Maggie, MIGHT it have been the hissy fit directed at the electrician which June witnessed? MIGHTt she have, at some point, done the same to June? MIGHT these episodes have been punctuated by inappropriate "highs"? When it's remembered that June and Nevill hadn't been in her company for any length of time since the previous September, they MUST have noticed a marked deterioration in her condition and felt at a loss as to how best to cope with it.

[maggie]

Maggie, MIGHT it have been the hissy fit directed at the electrician which June witnessed? MIGHTt she have, at some point, done the same to June? MIGHT these episodes have been punctuated by inappropriate "highs"? When it's remembered that June and Nevill hadn't been in her company for any length of time since the previous September, they MUST have noticed a marked deterioration in her condition and felt at a loss as to how best to cope with it.

Hi April, yes I agree J&N must have felt at a complete loss. We know a little of her behaviour that week but obviously  not all such a pity June didn't tell Pam anymore on the phone that night.

[lookout]

Maggie, MIGHT it have been the hissy fit directed at the electrician which June witnessed? MIGHTt she have, at some point, done the same to June? MIGHT these episodes have been punctuated by inappropriate "highs"? When it's remembered that June and Nevill hadn't been in her company for any length of time since the previous September, they MUST have noticed a marked deterioration in her condition and felt at a loss as to how best to cope with it.

April,,I think Sheilas' " behaviour " was something that June was well used to when you mentioned about the electrician,,otherwise,,if it had been a sudden outburst,there would have been an element of shock if you hadn't seen it before. As you would be yourself,,because you'd be at a complete loss as to how to go about doing anything about it. Instead,,June would have whisked Sheila quickly back into the house after making her " excuses ".

[Droosie]

From what I have read, Colin Caffell has remarried and has a daughter. I think it is clear that he cared for the twins very well...whatever his "artistic temperament.  I am pretty chaotic due to my dyspraxia but my son remains well cared for.

I don't think we can say that the twins had a chaotic life with Colin....it seems that Sheila's mental health caused problems but she was being treated for this.

I know little about the bruising that the twins had <goes off to read more>

[lookout]

From what I have read, Colin Caffell has remarried and has a daughter. I think it is clear that he cared for the twins very well...whatever his "artistic temperament.  I am pretty chaotic due to my dyspraxia but my son remains well cared for.

I don't think we can say that the twins had a chaotic life with Colin....it seems that Sheila's mental health caused problems but she was being treated for this.

I know little about the bruising that the twins had <goes off to read more>

Neverthless,Droosie,,those little boys would have been frought with confusion.Mummy " being funny ",,as children that age have no real concept of illness or what can happen and they may have seen Sheila as a source of amusement at times.
Then Daddy with " this lady " who wasn't their mummy. Their stays at WHF,,under sufference from poor Junes' religious mania. The different child-minders,foster parents and social-workers.
I bet those kids never knew where they'd end up from one week to another. When they were just with their mother,,they were getting themselves ready for school,,,washing,dressing and also breakfasts,,and turning up at school looking tired ,pale and dishevelled. This would have been the time that the teacher contacted the health nurse,or social worker to see what the problem was.
This only happened when the boys were living with their mother. I don't quite know how they arrived,or got to school. Poor little mites. Sheila had completely lost interest because of her deteriorating illness.

[Caroline]

So, where is the evidence of cigarette burns? I have seen an official document that mentions one of the twins had a scald which was found to be accidental. There were no cigarette burns at all - that happens to be a crime and Sheila would have been prosecuted. 

[Jane]

So, where is the evidence of cigarette burns? I have seen an official document that mentions one of the twins had a scold which was found to be accidental. There were no cigarette burns at all - that happens to be a crime and Sheila would have been prosecuted. 

Caroline, you made the point better than I. I just pointed out that NOBODY would have witnessed a child having cigarette burns and done nothing about it. We know Sheila wasn't a confident mother. I think it's possible that she'd have had them at the hospital for the least little thing but no one found anything suspicious, EVER.

[lookout]

A child can accidentally run into someone who's holding a cigar/cigarette. I didn't mention " deliberately " burnt. If Sheila even had a cig dangling from her mouth while undressing the boys for bed,completely oblivious as to her surrounds,it can happen too. Burned,but not deliberately because of her frame of mind.

[Jane]

A child can accidentally run into someone who's holding a cigar/cigarette. I didn't mention " deliberately " burnt. If Sheila even had a cig dangling from her mouth while undressing the boys for bed,completely oblivious as to her surrounds,it can happen too. Burned,but not deliberately because of her frame of mind.

Lookout, NOBODY reading your original post on this subject would have thought you were suggesting ANY accidental injury. You simply spoke of "cigarette burn(s)" and no one is unaware of what they imply. I feel perfectly certain that SS MAY have alerted the hospital to the fact that they were "supporting" the mother, the result of which MAY have been that the hospital was extra vigilant. They found NOTHING, Lookout.