An alibi from Neville is better than no alibi at all :

[lookout]

It's a possibility,Alias,as she didn't sound overly bothered ( like having been told that Jeremy was going to murder the family ) you mean ?

[maggie]

It's a possibility,Alias,as she didn't sound overly bothered ( like having been told that Jeremy was going to murder the family ) you mean ?

Yes, it's Julie Mugford's  behaviour which I find much more questionable, if it was true he had talked about murdering his family for a year and if she knew that was what he was talking about that night, how on earth could she have behaved the way she did that  night and the weeks after?

[Jane]

It certainly wouldn't have bothered him seeing his sister and children being treated by June and Neville,as afterall,he'd done well out of them and he also had a regular well paid job even if he wasn't that keen on it,because I don't think he wanted to get his hands dirty or be classed as a farm labourer.
I think also,that Jeremy would have done what he'd wanted to do rather than feel it was his destiny to remain under the thumbs of his parents. So no,I don't think Jeremy gave a fig to be honest how much help was going to whoever. He had women on his mind and sadly didn't really think about anyone else,as young men don't at that age.

Resentment doesn't understand the rational, Lookout. In quiet moments OR when he was told to do something he'd rather not have done, I'd have been surprised, knowing how destructive sibling rivalry can be, if it hadn't crossed his mind that he had to work for what he got and Sheila got it for nothing. He'd have been less than human if he hadn't.

[susan]

Alias that is a good point. None of us know if Jeremy firmly believed Sheila was capable of murdering her family if he was he should have acted differently than he did and pressed 999 to get the police over to the farm Colin did not seem surprised when he was told and accepted Sheila was responsible them he changed it all round saying Sheila would never have killed her boys and her Dad this is why I am confused mixed messages  I certainly do not believe what suits my scenario I try to see it from every ones point of view and so much of what is said on here I can say yes that could have happened

[maggie]

Alias that is a good point. None of us know if Jeremy firmly believed Sheila was capable of murdering her family if he was he should have acted differently than he did and pressed 999 to get the police over to the farm Colin did not seem surprised when he was told and accepted Sheila was responsible them he changed it all round saying Sheila would never have killed her boys and her Dad this is why I am confused mixed messages  I certainly do not believe what suits my scenario I try to see it from every ones point of view and so much of what is said on here I can say yes that could have happened

That's the trouble, susie there are so many possibilities that it's impossible to know imo.  I do believe though that if Sheila was a heavy cocaine user on top of her paranoid schizophrenia she would have been quite capable of causing that carnage given a certain set of circumstances and symptoms, long term ongoing cocaine use can cause real violence and is possibly responsible for much of the most violent crimes. imo

[susan]

Maggie I agree with you totally but what is going through my mind would Jeremy have thought her capable or did he just consider it to be just a threat and yet I tell myself he did eventually phone the police so he must have thought she was capable Mind boggling.

[maggie]

Maggie I agree with you totally but what is going through my mind would Jeremy have thought her capable or did he just consider it to be just a threat and yet I tell myself he did eventually phone the police so he must have thought she was capable Mind boggling.

We don't really know, maybe he didn't really know but thought he couldn't ignore it.  At the same time 999 may have seemed too drastic which is why he called the station instead, also the fact his Dad wouldn't have wanted a fuss, guess we don't really know what he thought and maybe he can't really remember but I find the conversation reported by Julie Mugford hard to understand it dosn't make any sense imo.

[susan]

Maggie do you mean when she told him to go back to bed.  This I find very difficult to understand for her to react like this tells me she did not take the situation seriously but she stated later she knew Jeremy had been intending to kill his family for months one would have thought alarm bells would have been ringing when Jeremy said something wrong at the farm  just does not make sense to me at all

[maggie]

Maggie do you mean when she told him to go back to bed.  This I find very difficult to understand for her to react like this tells me she did not take the situation seriously but she stated later she knew Jeremy had been intending to kill his family for months one would have thought alarm bells would have been ringing when Jeremy said something wrong at the farm  just does not make sense to me at all

It doesn't make any sense at all, seemed like a very disjointed conversation as well.  Canno see how anyone could believe this part of her statement proves anything, it's nonsense imo  You can make sentences out of it by inserting words but the original statement doesn't deem to men anything.

[susan]

Maggie none of it makes sense to me.  Have we got Jeremy's take on this phone call or just hers.

[Alias]

It doesn't make any sense at all, seemed like a very disjointed conversation as well.  Canno see how anyone could believe this part of her statement proves anything, it's nonsense imo  You can make sentences out of it by inserting words but the original statement doesn't deem to men anything.

Exactly. Words and most likely whole sentences are missing. I don´t know why Jeremy´s defence didn´t do anything with this.

[lookout]

Resentment doesn't understand the rational, Lookout. In quiet moments OR when he was told to do something he'd rather not have done, I'd have been surprised, knowing how destructive sibling rivalry can be, if it hadn't crossed his mind that he had to work for what he got and Sheila got it for nothing. He'd have been less than human if he hadn't.

I still don't think that there was any rivalry between brother and sister. Both were treated fairly and squarely,with or without the twins.
The ONE person whom Jeremy did express a certain amount of hostility for at the time,was Colin,who Jeremy thought would have pulled out all the stops after Sheila had had the twins,and knuckled under to support them all financially,but it didn't happen and Jeremy had to live with the idea of his sister being the breadwinner,which he openly objected to.
If Jeremy had realised how very ill Sheila was at that time,I'm sure there'd have been a set-to between him and Colin. Contrary to what others and the media say,Jeremy was very protective of his sister.

[lebaleb]

This is total speculation... but I think Sheila, having locked herself in the bathroom with the gun, told Neville she wanted Jeremy. Her intention was that all the family should die that night. Neville humored her and called Jeremy. After she heard him speaking to Jeremy, she began her killing spree. She was probably expecting Jeremy to show up later when she could shoot him and then herself. By calling the police Jeremy unwittingly saved his own life.

[maggie]

This is total speculation... but I think Sheila, having locked herself in the bathroom with the gun, told Neville she wanted Jeremy. Her intention was that all the family should die that night. Neville humored her and called Jeremy. After she heard him speaking to Jeremy, she began her killing spree. She was probably expecting Jeremy to show up later when she could shoot him and then herself. By calling the police Jeremy unwittingly saved his own life.

Hi lebaleb, I have always had a picture in my head that Sheila locked herself in the bathroom and threatened to shoot herself, that could have been connected with Anthony Pargeter's rifle which was usually kept in there. Anthony Pargeter appeared to be very uncomfortable in admitting where this weapon was that night and whether the bolt was at the farm with the gun or not   changing his story numerous times. Have always felt his rifle was involved in some way.   
It's possible Sheila may have demanded Nevill rang Jeremy to get him over to WHF but not sure if Sheila, psychotic enough to murder 5 people including her beloved boys would be rational enough to make such a request.  If Sheila carried out the massacre, I believe she just blew, not because of conversations between Nevill and June over supper but because of what was happening in her mind.

[lebaleb]

In my experience people having psychotic episodes can be very logical in a twisted way. Once my cousin was having an episode. He explained to me how manna fell from heaven. {he often got very religious during those times}. He said a spout of oil shot into the sky and reformed into bread... hydrocarbons becoming carbohydrates.