Flake that Boutflour scraped off silencer, could have been one examined, at Lab'

[mike tesko]

Flake that Boutflour scraped off silencer, could have been one examined, at Lab'

I am not convinced by the claim that the crucial flake that produced the four blood group results, was found inside the silencer that was sent to the Lab' on 30th August 1985? For example, there is no definite date, or time, when the ballistics expert, Malcolm Fletcher, examined, and found the crucial flake of blood trapped between baffles one and two...

The closest we get to any information about when and how the flake was discovered, is where Fletcher says in one of his statements that upon dismantling the silencer he discovers the flake trapped between baffles one and two, and that on 12th September 1985, he caused the silencer to be handed over to the blood expert, John Hayward, for him to deal with...

Well, the silencer in question was submitted to the Lab' on 30th August 1985, according to the evidence...

So, at what stage, and on what occasion did Fletcher perform this examination, and when did he make this discovery?

No-one knows...

I think this paves the way for the possibility that the flake which the blood expert, John Hayward, examined and analyzed on and from 12th September 1985, could have been the flake that Boutflour scraped from the silencer by use of a razor blade...

[mike tesko]

It was not until David Boutflour, made a witness statement to COLP in 1991, that any information about these activities of Boutflour, came to light. He informs COLp in 1991, that he used a razor blade to scrape off a small flake of blood from the silencers end cap, by using a razor blade, and that he retained the flake because it fascinated him...

He also told COLP (1991) that Essex police were aware of what he had done...

[mike tesko]

Now, what I would like to know the answer to, is the identities, of the Essex police officers who knew about what Boutflour had done, by tampering with the integrity of the silencer, on that occasion?

Who did Boutflour contact, about him scraping off the flake of blood from the end of the silencer by use of a razor blade, and what if anything did that, or those Essex police officers do about it?

[mike tesko]

I can't believe, and I refuse to accept that Essex police did absolutely nothing at all, upon recieving this information, from David Boutflour...

[mike tesko]

I personally believe that Boutflour did not find the silencer in the gun cupboard at whf, until 11th September 1985, and that his sister, Ann Eaton, handed over this silencer to the police, on that same date (11th September 1985)...

[Kaldin]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

[mike tesko]

I also believe that the confusion about which police officer was handed the silencer by Ann Eaton on that date, (11th September 1985), has got something to do with the possibility that the flake which Boutflour scraped from the silencer by use of a razor blade, may have been handed over to the police on that same date, and that either DC Oakey, or DS Jones, took possession of the crucial flake that I am referring to...

Which in turn, was forwarded to the Lab' in time for the blood expert, John Hayward, to examine and analyze it, which in turn produced the four blood group results, A, EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1, between 12th and 19th September 1985...

[mike tesko]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

-----------------

Yes, of course - there is evidence contained in the working notes from the lab' (which I will try to make available for viewing) that it was a possibility that blood could have been dripped into the silencer...

[Kaldin]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

-----------------

Yes, of course - there is evidence contained in the working notes from the lab' (which I will try to make available for viewing) that it was a possibility that blood could have been dripped into the silencer...

Thank you! I think that if the police or the forensic people considered that contamination from Robert Boutflour was a possibility, we should certainly consider it too.

Can I assume that blood samples from Ann and David were taken too?

[mike tesko]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

-----------------

Yes, of course - there is evidence contained in the working notes from the lab' (which I will try to make available for viewing) that it was a possibility that blood could have been dripped into the silencer...

Thank you! I think that if the police or the forensic people considered that contamination from Robert Boutflour was a possibility, we should certainly consider it too.

Can I assume that blood samples from Ann and David were taken too?

--------------------------

I have to source the information from the 50,000 documents I have got access to, but I will try and get the information posted as soon as I can. But blood samples were taken from all the relatives as far as I know, or can remember...

I know for a fact that DCI "Taff" Jones, thought that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for the murders, and that is why he took the stance he took when they were trying to influence the earlier investigation under SC/688/85...

[Kaldin]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

-----------------

Yes, of course - there is evidence contained in the working notes from the lab' (which I will try to make available for viewing) that it was a possibility that blood could have been dripped into the silencer...

Thank you! I think that if the police or the forensic people considered that contamination from Robert Boutflour was a possibility, we should certainly consider it too.

Can I assume that blood samples from Ann and David were taken too?

--------------------------

I have to source the information from the 50,000 documents I have got access to, but I will try and get the information posted as soon as I can. But blood samples were taken from all the relatives as far as I know, or can remember...

I know for a fact that DCI "Taff" Jones, thought that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for the murders, and that is why he took the stance he took when they were trying to influence the earlier investigation under SC/688/85...

I wish we could know more about DCI Jones. Even though he died before the trial, there must be statements of some kind written by him. All I have to go on is what others have said about him, and his irritation with the family.

[mike tesko]

I'm sorry to bring this up again but I think it's an important point. The blood grouping of Robert Boutflour was known to Mr Hayward, the forensic scientist. In a document dated 3rd October 1986 he said that the blood in the silencer could have come from Sheila Caffell or Robert Boutflour, and I'm not sure why that statement was made. It's on SFJ so I can't copy it here.

Does that suggest that the possibility of contamination of the blood on or in the silencer had been considered?

-----------------

Yes, of course - there is evidence contained in the working notes from the lab' (which I will try to make available for viewing) that it was a possibility that blood could have been dripped into the silencer...

Thank you! I think that if the police or the forensic people considered that contamination from Robert Boutflour was a possibility, we should certainly consider it too.

Can I assume that blood samples from Ann and David were taken too?

--------------------------

I have to source the information from the 50,000 documents I have got access to, but I will try and get the information posted as soon as I can. But blood samples were taken from all the relatives as far as I know, or can remember...

I know for a fact that DCI "Taff" Jones, thought that the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for the murders, and that is why he took the stance he took when they were trying to influence the earlier investigation under SC/688/85...

I wish we could know more about DCI Jones. Even though he died before the trial, there must be statements of some kind written by him. All I have to go on is what others have said about him, and his irritation with the family.

-------------------------

Well, I do have some witness statement from him, and typed version of his pocketbook note (but I am always wary of these typed versions, because of the possibility that important detail has been deliberately omitted)...

If a typed version of his pocketbook notes has been disclosed, why do Essex police and the DPP / CPS, not want to disclose the original notes?

[mike tesko]

We are told that the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, dismantled the silencer and found the crucial flake of blood that was trapped between baffles one and two - but why wasn't the flake given his exhibit identifying mark (and a corresponding Lab' item number)?

What date did he strip the silencer down and find the flake?

[mike tesko]

The silencer was handed to the blood expert, John Hayward on 12th September 1985, and the blood grouping tests commenced on that date...

I don't get this...

If Fletcher dismantled the silencer, and found the flake, why doesn't Fletcher hand over the flake on 12th August 1985?

Why only a reference to handing over the silencer?

[mike tesko]

Why is there no corresponding information or evidence, from John Hayward, that he received the crucial flake from the ballistic expert, on 12th September 1985?