Telephone issue - Extravaganza...

[Jan]

I can see the guilters point as to why JB would make up a telephone call as an alibi of sorts. It could have been the start of setting the scene that Sheila was responsible. However,this,to me,all falls flat where Bews states that JB wanted the police to enter the farmhouse straight away. Obviously if they had of done (and victims were all dead) time of death would have been established and it would have been game over for a 'guilty' JB. Jeremy cannot take the blame for the raid team taking 'hours' to enter the farmhouse. If all was quiet,no movement etc,they would have gone in as soon as it was light (as planned). EP believed it was a hostage situation. Something must have led them to believe that this was case,hence the loudspeaker attempts,back up raid team summoned etc?

this is a very good point - there was no way he could have known the police would wait for hours - even though he mentioned the guns - they could have back up there straight away and gone in to try and rescue the poor children. Because whatever the scenario they would not have KNOWN that they were dead.

[Jane]

this is a very good point - there was no way he could have known the police would wait for hours - even though he mentioned the guns - they could have back up there straight away and gone in to try and rescue the poor children. Because whatever the scenario they would not have KNOWN that they were dead.

Jansus, this is a point I've raised numerous times when "guilters" insist that Jeremy "kept" the police, ALL who were there, from entering by telling them stories of "nutters" with guns. They credit him with being an all powerful orator along the lines of Churchill when it suits their purpose.

[maggie]

this is a very good point - there was no way he could have known the police would wait for hours - even though he mentioned the guns - they could have back up there straight away and gone in to try and rescue the poor children. Because whatever the scenario they would not have KNOWN that they were dead.

Absolutely, tyler/jansus the guilter's have strange reasoning, how could Jeremy have had the slightest idea when the police would enter WHF.  I understand the point about the phone call and the alibi but it falls down as why would he draw so much attention to himself.  If he wanted to keep them out of WHF surely the thing to do would be to keep quiet til the morning, the only way he could have been sure the time of death would not be significant.  As it was it made no difference as the police CHOSE not to enter til morning. 

[Jane]

Absolutely, tyler/jansus the guilter's have strange reasoning, how could Jeremy have had the slightest idea when the police would enter WHF.  I understand the point about the phone call and the alibi but it falls down as why would he draw so much attention to himself.  If he wanted to keep them out of WHF surely the thing to do would be to keep quiet til the morning, the only way he could have been sure the time of death would not be significant.  As it was it made no difference as the police CHOSE not to enter til morning.

Yes Maggie, what better way of ensuring that the police didn't go IN to the house than by making certain they didn't go TO the house.

[Adam]

Exactly. It was silly making up this alibi.

He probably would not have heard the downstairs phone. If he did he would not have answered it within three to five rings meaning Neville would have left a message saying 'come quickly, Sheila has gone crazy & she's got the gun' before being cut off.  Oh sorry I forgot Jeremy turned his answering machine off that night.

[susan]

Hello  Adam How do you know Jeremy turned his answering machine off that night and how do you know his answering machine did not have a message on from Ralph Bamber the police removed it for examination Adam I am not saying this happened I am saying this could have happened   Keep an open mind Adam.

[Adam]

Do not see what difference it makes whether the police entered WHF straight away or not. Everyone was dead.

For Jeremy I suppose the longer it lasted, the better. He could play the worried son & spend longer implicating his 'nutter' sister. The more dramatic it is, raid team etc, the more it looks like there is someone dangerous inside. Jeremy himself claimed he saw movement inside, or was that Bews ? Either way it was agreed it was a trick of the light.

If Jeremy was planning this, he would know that the police would get the raid team in when there is a gun/hostage situation. Meaning a long delay while Jeremy was innocently outside WHF with the police.

[susan]

Hello Maggie/april  I still cannot accept Jeremy would have made up this story of the phones calls reasons being too risky and don't think Jeremy had the type of brain that could think of this.

[Adam]

If someone like Barbara Wilson had found the bodies, Jeremy would still be a suspect.

He would still have no alibi & a motive. The relatives would still not believe it & Jeremy would still have told Mugford the same things & reacted with indifference. Sheila would have still been shot twice & Neville would be lying in the kitchen after putting up a fight for life.

Getting a call from Neville gives him alibi which cannot be disproved. Sadly it cannot be proved either.

[maggie]

Exactly. It was silly making up this alibi.

He probably would not have heard the downstairs phone. If he did he would not have answered it within three to five rings meaning Neville would have left a message saying 'come quickly, Sheila has gone crazy & she's got the gun' before being cut off.  Oh sorry I forgot Jeremy turned his answering machine off that night.

Hi Adam, have you figured out why Sheila's age was different on each of the logs?

[maggie]

If someone like Barbara Wilson had found the bodies, Jeremy would still be a suspect.

He would still have no alibi & a motive. The relatives would still not believe it & Jeremy would still have told Mugford the same things & reacted with indifference. Sheila would have still been shot twice & Neville would be lying in the kitchen after putting up a fight for life.

Getting a call from Neville gives him alibi which cannot be disproved. Sadly it cannot be proved either.

Hi Adam, Brett Collins who was very close to Jeremy after the murders stated that Jeremy was in a bad way, just because he didn't wear sackcloth and ashes does not mean he wasn't in shock. You have no idea how Jeremy was after the murders as you weren't there and Brett was.  Someone I know lost a close relative to suicide about a week before Christmas  but she was out partying over Christmas and being seen to be having a good time.  Shock causes different reactions at different times to different people.

[Adam]

The phone call from Neville rounds the potential suspects down to two.

However if Jeremy had not phoned the police, there would only be three realistic suspects. Sheila & Jeremy being the main ones.

Jeremy would be a suspect for the reasons just mentioned.

No one would think it was some random stranger. Why would a random stranger break in, massacre everyone and not take anything ?  Then leave by shutting the kitchen window behind him. Why would a stranger leave the gun by Sheila ?

The third  suspect would be the person who found the bodies. Barbara Wilson perhaps ? !

[grahameb]

Grahame  I have put this to the guilty posters and they have said he made it up to give himself an alibi which really is quite laughable if it was not such a sad tragic incident the phone calls happened and I suspect somewhere the proof is there. The guilty supporters really don't have much to argue about other than the phone calls his behaviour after and before the funerals if he cried it was crocodile tears if he smiled he was wrong he could not win :(Had I committed these horrendous murders I would have left the  scene and made sure I left NOTHING behind to incriminate me gone home to bed and waited to be contacted failing that arrived at the farm next morning as per usual  and discover the horrendous scene.  I am sure Adam will be waiting in the wings to attack me and my post

Well it clearly was not an alibi was it. If anyone believes that then they are greater fools than I thought they were. In fact it would have been a greater alibi if he had NOT phoned. How stupid can guilters be? So blined by their scenarios that they cannot look at things logically. And they call Bamber intelligent and then foolish. A contradiction in terms.

[susan]

Adam how do you know everyone was dead when Jeremy arrived at WHF with the police were you present.  I think you will find that was not the case and time may answer the question.  You make such bold statements black or white with you Adam no grey area

[maggie]

The phone call from Neville rounds the potential suspects down to two.

However if Jeremy had not phoned the police, there would only be three realistic suspects. Sheila & Jeremy being the main ones.

Jeremy would be a suspect for the reasons just mentioned.

No one would think it was some random stranger. Why would a random stranger break in, massacre everyone and not take anything ?  Then leave by shutting the kitchen window behind him. Why would a stranger leave the gun by Sheila ?

The third  suspect would be the person who found the bodies. Barbara Wilson perhaps ? !

Why do the two phone logs, one supposed to be a copy of another give Sheila different ages?  Do you have a theory on that Adam?