Telephone issue - Extravaganza...

[mike tesko]

Where is it recorded, or when was PC West supposed to have relayed to MB the fact that Jeremy had spoken to PC West about his fathers collection of 12 bores and .410's?

The contents of both police logs (3:36 and 3:26am) do not match up, and cannot be shown to be a true record of Jeremy's call to police, albeit relayed from West to Bonnet. How strange, that although West received Jeremys call, which he supposedly relayed to MB, that the timing of PC Wests log (3:36am) occurs after MB's log (3:26am)?

[mike tesko]

The contents of both police logs (3:36 and 3:26am) do not match up, and cannot be shown to be a true record of Jeremy's call to police, albeit relayed from West to Bonnet. How strange, that although West received Jeremys call, which he supposedly relayed to MB, that the timing of PC Wests log (3:36am) occurs after MB's log (3:26am)?

More importantly...

The contents of this log, appear to be timed wrongly, and details about the BEWS, Myall and Bamber recce of the house omitted altogether. Additionally, contents recorded on the reverse of front page (3:36am) log, not on a proper form designed to record such details - producing grounds for suspecting that these details may have been re-written, and the original form containing the original details including details about the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window, deliberately withheld...

[Reader]

Additionally, contents recorded on the reverse of front page (3:36am) log, not on a proper form designed to record such details - producing grounds for suspecting that these details may have been re-written, and the original form containing the original details including details about the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window, deliberately withheld...

Mentioning these logs together tends to confuse, as it takes careful reading to realize that the only connection between them that you are suggesting is that both may have been rewritten, with the originals being withheld, thereby remaining secret.

[maggie]

Mentioning these logs together tends to confuse, as it takes careful reading to realize that the only connection between them that you are suggesting is that both may have been rewritten, with the originals being withheld, thereby remaining secret.

I find this explanation from the Official Website, along with the video explain things quite clearly.

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/nevill-s-call-to-police

[Reader]

I find this explanation from the Official Website, along with the video explain things quite clearly.

Unfortunately, the official website's version is not believable. For example, Pc West asked for, and obtained, in court a copy of his log. Using that log, he confirmed in court that his log gives Sheila's age as 27 (in response to a specific question by the defence). If Malcolm Bonnett's log had been produced in the trial (or seen by the defence), the judge and jury would have had access to it. Also, the defence would have noticed that it gives Sheila's age as 26.

[Reader]

Where is it recorded, or when was PC West supposed to have relayed to MB the fact that Jeremy had spoken to PC West about his fathers collection of 12 bores and .410's?

The form Pc West used features a box that contains 7 options for the information source: 999 (even though 999 calls were routed to HQIR, not the room at Chelmsford police station where Pc West worked), Internal Line, Exchange Line, Direct Alarm, Radio, Verbal Report, and Officer's Report.

In contrast, the form that Malcom Bonnett used features a box that contains only 4 options for the information source: 999, Exchange Line, Radio, and Private Wire.

If Pc West used an internal line to contact MB, MB had no "Internal Line" option to circle on his form. The fact that MB circled "Exchange Line" is therefore not significant.

MB's log states "Message passed to CD by the son of Mr Bamber, after the phone went dead. Mr Bamber has a collection of shotguns and ·410's. As CD refers to the control room at Chelmsford police station, not HQIR (where radio reports from WHF were received), this effectively asserts that the information was passed via Pc West. However, there's no indication as to when this occurred. In contrast, Pc West said at JB's trial (according to the court transcript) "I asked him did anyone have access to any firearms and he told me his father had a collection of .410 12 bore shotguns and .22 rifles."

[curiousessex]

After 03.50am and when Jeremy had arrived at White House Farm on the morning of 7th August 1985 Jeremy was specifically asked why he had not dialled 999, Jeremy said he did not think it would make any difference to the time it would have taken for the police to arrive.

When Jeremy received an alleged telephone call from Nevill on the morning of 7th August 1985 Jeremy says the line when dead, he tried to call his father back immediately and he had used the memory redial facility on his telephone. Jeremy says he repeatedly got the engaged tone when trying to ring Nevill back.

It later transpires that Jeremy had received an alleged telephone call from Nevill and then Jeremy decides to ring Julie at between 02.58 am and 03.12 am before ringing the police. Jeremy confirms it was only later he rings the police but not by dialling 999 but by having looked up the telephone number for Chelmsford Police.

Why would Jeremy detail, at just after 03.50 am that the reason he had not dialled 999 was because he did not think it would make any difference to the time it would have taken for the police to arrive yet within the previous 60 minutes Jeremy's actions were making a significant difference to the time it would take the police to arrive at White House Farm?

Was Jeremy trying to hide something?

[grahameb]

After 03.50am and when Jeremy had arrived at White House Farm on the morning of 7th August 1985 Jeremy was specifically asked why he had not dialled 999, Jeremy said he did not think it would make any difference to the time it would have taken for the police to arrive.

When Jeremy received an alleged telephone call from Nevill on the morning of 7th August 1985 Jeremy says the line when dead, he tried to call his father back immediately and he had used the memory redial facility on his telephone. Jeremy says he repeatedly got the engaged tone when trying to ring Nevill back.

It later transpires that Jeremy had received an alleged telephone call from Nevill and then Jeremy decides to ring Julie at between 02.58 am and 03.12 am before ringing the police. Jeremy confirms it was only later he rings the police but not by dialling 999 but by having looked up the telephone number for Chelmsford Police.

Why would Jeremy detail, at just after 03.50 am that the reason he had not dialled 999 was because he did not think it would make any difference to the time it would have taken for the police to arrive yet within the previous 60 minutes Jeremy's actions were making a significant difference to the time it would take the police to arrive at White House Farm?

Was Jeremy trying to hide something?

(1) Do you have any idea what he was hiding? (2) Do you think it would have made any difference if he had dialed 999? (3) Is all this business about not dialing 999 just a red herring?

[curiousessex]

(1) Do you have any idea what he was hiding? (2) Do you think it would have made any difference if he had dialed 999? (3) Is all this business about not dialing 999 just a red herring?

(1) Maybe the truth
(2) Ringing Julie before the police when having just received an alleged telephone call from a father who sounded terrified will make a difference to the time the police arrive.
(3) In the face of an unexpected emergency I would say most people would instinctively dial 999 as opposed to getting the telephone directory and then looking up the telephone number of a particular police station so contact with the police can be made. The process of looking up the required telephone number as opposed to just dialing 999 will make a difference to the time the police arrive.

[grahameb]

(1) Maybe the truth
(2) Ringing Julie before the police when having just received an alleged telephone call from a father who sounded terrified will make a difference to the time the police arrive.
(3) In the face of an unexpected emergency I would say most people would instinctively dial 999 as opposed to getting the telephone directory and then looking up the telephone number of a particular police station so contact with the police can be made. The process of looking up the required telephone number as opposed to just dialing 999 will make a difference to the time the police arrive.

Bearing that in mind. That dialing 999 would make a difference to the time the police arrived: (1) What difference would it had made how fast the police arrived seeing he's already killed the whole family? (2) Why then was he travelling so slowly (according to the police) if he didn't expect the police to arrive very quickly. He could have just started out later? I admit that if that was any of my family I would have dialed 999. In fact I found myself watching a break-in once and I immediately dialed 999 and not the other none critical emergency number. It was nothing serious. It was just kids breaking into an old derelict house. So I didn't think it warrented a full blown 999 call. But for the life of me I couldn't think of the other number. The police turned up about half hour later anyway.

[susan]

Morning Grahame

had Jeremy Bamber been guilty of murdering his entire family why invent any phone calls at all.  He would have had time to clean himself up and get rid of anything that would incriminate him and wait in his bed for somebody to contact him.  Had the phone calls not happened which I think they did what did he achieve by making all this up as it seems this is the most incrimating evidence against him according to posters who think he is guilty.  Just does not make sense to me or ring true.

[grahameb]

Morning Grahame

had Jeremy Bamber been guilty of murdering his entire family why invent any phone calls at all.  He would have had time to clean himself up and get rid of anything that would incriminate him and wait in his bed for somebody to contact him.  Had the phone calls not happened which I think they did what did he achieve by making all this up as it seems this is the most incrimating evidence against him according to posters who think he is guilty.  Just does not make sense to me or ring true.

Presicely my view Susan. The phone call is superfluous. Why make it if it was true?

[susan]

Grahame  I have put this to the guilty posters and they have said he made it up to give himself an alibi which really is quite laughable if it was not such a sad tragic incident the phone calls happened and I suspect somewhere the proof is there. The guilty supporters really don't have much to argue about other than the phone calls his behaviour after and before the funerals if he cried it was crocodile tears if he smiled he was wrong he could not win :(Had I committed these horrendous murders I would have left the  scene and made sure I left NOTHING behind to incriminate me gone home to bed and waited to be contacted failing that arrived at the farm next morning as per usual  and discover the horrendous scene.  I am sure Adam will be waiting in the wings to attack me and my post

[mike tesko]

And why would Bonnet choose to paraphrase instead of just writing what West told him? More to the point, why didn't anyone ask him?

Good point, Caroline...

[tyler]

I can see the guilters point as to why JB would make up a telephone call as an alibi of sorts. It could have been the start of setting the scene that Sheila was responsible. However,this,to me,all falls flat where Bews states that JB wanted the police to enter the farmhouse straight away. Obviously if they had of done (and victims were all dead) time of death would have been established and it would have been game over for a 'guilty' JB. Jeremy cannot take the blame for the raid team taking 'hours' to enter the farmhouse. If all was quiet,no movement etc,they would have gone in as soon as it was light (as planned). EP believed it was a hostage situation. Something must have led them to believe that this was case,hence the loudspeaker attempts,back up raid team summoned etc?