Author Topic: Judges summing up : His main points.  (Read 8134 times)

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Offline Adam

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Judges summing up : His main points.
« on: December 18, 2013, 12:56:AM »
Did the jury believe Julie or Jeremy ?

Did Jeremy mention Matthew Mcdonald as a cover up ?

Both Jeremy & Julie had committed recent crimes. That does not mean either lied in court in this trial. Julie had paid back the money she stole.

Jeremy trusted Julie to help him commit a crime at the caravan site. Did he trust her enough to confide in the murders ?

The jury should ignore the media.

Every witness in the trial is equal.

Did the mysterious phone call from Neville happen ?

Could Mugford have lied under oath for nearly two days ?

Did Mugford's testimony have a ring of truth ?

The judge said Bamber should know whether he phoned Witham police station or not.

The prosecution claim to have an overwhelming case even without the silencer evidence. The judge told the jury to disregard this comment & review all evidence.

Red paint on silencer shows it was on during kitchen fight. Jeremy said the gun was left that night without a silencer on. Why would Sheila put a silencer on the gun & did she know how to do this ? 

Why would Sheila take the silencer off the gun & put it away, rather than throw it on the floor ?

There was overwhelming evidence it was Sheila's blood on the silencer.

Police mistakes not relevant. Part of the reason for the mistakes early on was because they had been lead in that direction.

Jeremy had a financial motive to commit the crime.

Jeremy said he had used the found hacksaw to gain access to WHF after the murders to get documentation.  Was this correct or had he gained entry on the murder night ?

The bicycle had dried mud on the wheels according to Robert Boutflour. Jeremy said his relationship with Julie was coming to a close in August. Why was the bike brought to the cottage just before the murders ?

Both the defence & prosecution agree the silencer was fitted for most of the time the crime was taking place.

Mugford was questioned at lenght & in detail. She stuck to her story under cross examination. The defence complained about her crying. But that could be a sign of weakness the defence could have exploited. Were the defence really complaining because she did not change her story ?

If Mugford was called at 3:12 by Jeremy & the police st 3:26 it badly undermines Jeremys version of events. 

If Neville called at 3.26, he had no face wounds. The police arrived at WHF at 3.48 & never heard any shots. Sheila must have fought Neville, perhaps shot other people, washed, unscrewed & put the silencer away & then shot herself. In 22 minutes.

Colin Caffell testified that Jeremy said Neville sounded wounded on the phone. However in court Jeremy said he thought it might have just sounded terrified. The judge said Jeremy should remember.

Dr Ferguson had testified that Sheila had never shown physical violence to other people. Others testified she was attached to her father & loving towards her sons.

Dr Bradley testified that people with no history of violence can become violent.

The judge mentioned the supper when fostering was mentioned. Jeremy said Sheila was non responsive. Therefore this cannot be used as a reason why Sheila could have committed the crimes.

The judge said it was 'very very' unlikely Sheila could overcome Neville in a fight & not have any marks. Jeremy was not examined for a long time & would have had time to clean up on the night.

The judge asked could Sheila load a gun ?

The judge said there is no doubt the silencer was on the rifle in the kitchen fight. It is not credible that Sheila would then put it back in the gun cupboard.

The judge said the blood found in the silencer was specific to Sheila. There was a remote possibility of it being a mixture of Neville & Junes.

The crime was committed by Sheila or Jeremy. There was no possible third party.



« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 10:48:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2013, 01:37:AM »
The defence were very upset at the summing up. Even the prosecution were quite surprised.

A judge can only sum up on the evidence presented. Weak evidence either way will result in the summing up favouring the defence or prosecution.

Jeremy felt the summing up was bad enough to make a quick appeal on the off chance it would result in an early realease. It failed but no harm in trying.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 01:40:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline tyler

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2013, 01:58:AM »
Paint samples were originally taken from the aga surround because a gun had been found downstairs with red paint on its barrel. (See Neil Davidsons COLP statement). Obviously this was covered up when the nature of the investigation changed,so that the paint evidence could be introduced on to the silencer that DB allegedly 'found' in the gun cupboard. Initially,a silencer SBJ/1 was found at the scene (see video clip of press conference with EP) which was forensically tested and NOTHING was found either on or in it! Silencer evidence is bogus and even the 'guilters' know it!

Offline susan

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2013, 07:06:AM »
Morning Adam

please refresh me on this evidence presented in Court by the prosecution against Jeremy Bamber. I recall the "silencer" bogus evidence and the testimony given by Julie!!!!!!!! and.............

Offline grahameb

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2013, 10:17:AM »
Did the jury believe Julie or Jeremy ?

Did Jeremy mention Matthew Mcdonald as a cover up ?

Both Jeremy & Julie had committed recent crimes. That does not mean either lied in court in this trial. Julie had paid back the money she stole.

Jeremy trusted Julie to help him commit a crime at the caravan site. Did he trust her enough to confide in the murders ?

The jury should ignore the media.

Every witness in the trial is equal.

Did the mysterious phone call from Neville happen ?

Could Mugford have lied under oath for nearly two days ?

Did Mugford's testimony have a ring of truth ?

The prosecution claim to have an overwhelming case even without the silencer evidence. The judge told the jury to disregard this comment & review all evidence.

Red paint on silencer shows it was on during kitchen fight. Jeremy said the gun was left that night without a silencer on. Why would Sheila put a silencer on the gun & did she know how to do this ? 

Why would Sheila take the silencer off the gun & put it away, rather than throw it on the floor ?

There was overwhelming evidence it was Sheila's blood on the silencer.

Police mistakes not relevant. Part of the reason for the mistakes early on was because they had been lead in that direction.

Jeremy had a financial motive to commit the crime.

Jeremy said he had used the found hacksaw to gain access to WHF after the murders to get documentation.  Was this correct or had he gained entry on the murder night ?

The bicycle had dried mud on the wheels according to Robert Boutflour. Jeremy said his relationship with Julie was coming to a close in August. Why was the bike brought to the cottage just before the murders ?

Both the defence & prosecution agree the silencer was fitted for most of the time the crime was taking place.

Mugford was questioned at lenght & in detail. She stuck to her story under cross examination. The defence complained about her crying. But that could be a sign of weakness the defence could have exploited. Were the defence really complaining because she did not change her story ?

If Mugford was called at 3:12 by Jeremy & the police st 3:26 it badly undermines Jeremys version of events. 

If Neville called at 3.26, he had no face wounds. The police arrived at WHF at 3.48 & never heard any shots. Sheila must have fought Neville, perhaps shot other people, washed, unscrewed & put the silencer away & then shot herself. In 22 minutes.

Colin Caffell testified that Jeremy said Neville sounded wounded on the phone. However in court Jeremy said he thought it might have just sounded terrified. The judge said Jeremy should remember.

Dr Ferguson had testified that Sheila had never shown physical violence to other people. Others testified she was attached to her father & loving towards her sons.

Dr Bradley testified that people with no history of violence can become violent.

The judge mentioned the supper when fostering was mentioned. Jeremy said Sheila was non responsive. Therefore this cannot be used as a reason why Sheila could have committed the crimes.

The judge said it was 'very very' unlikely Sheila could overcome Neville in a fight & not have any marks. Jeremy was not examined for a long time & would have had time to clean up on the night.

The judge asked could Sheila load a gun ?

The judge said there is no doubt the silencer was on the rifle in the kitchen fight. It is not credible that Sheila would then put it back in the gun cupboard.

The judge said the blood found in the silencer was specific to Sheila. There was a remote possibility of it being a mixture of Neville & Junes.

The crime was committed by Sheila or Jeremy. There was no possible third party.
Well done Adam. That seems to be a fairly comprehensive outline of the trial. Looking at all that I think I would have voted for a guilty verdict as well? ;D
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:26:AM by Grahame »

Offline grahameb

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2013, 10:19:AM »
Quote from: Adam
Dr Bradley testified that people with no history of violence can become violent.
Did you mean to say this?

Offline grahameb

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2013, 10:25:AM »
The defence were very upset at the summing up. Even the prosecution were quite surprised.

A judge can only sum up on the evidence presented. Weak evidence either way will result in the summing up favouring the defence or prosecution.

Jeremy felt the summing up was bad enough to make a quick appeal on the off chance it would result in an early realease. It failed but no harm in trying.
Time to examine the life of Ducky Drake methinks? ;) I have read the stories of Madam Whiplash and a certain "Ducky Drake" who she used to service to put it euphemistically. Could such a secret life of a judge be used to blackmail him? Madam Whiplash once boasted that if we knew the truth she could have brought down the government of the time. Are me permitted to inquire after the private life of this man? If this post is illegal no doubt the admin will edit it?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:27:AM by Grahame »

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2013, 05:57:PM »
Some very interesting points made by the judge.

Does anyone know what about the summing up from the judge Jeremy was appealing about ? Or whether Jeremy felt the judge did not mention anything ?

It all seems to be in order to me.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 06:01:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 05:58:PM »
Adam it does surprise me you have had Legal training ;D

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2013, 06:01:PM »
I have had no legal training.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 06:09:PM »
Jeremy broke into the caravan site & stole nearly £1,000. Then spent most of it.

He staged it to look like a break in. However Barbara Wilson says Neville knew about what Jeremy had done & decided not to prosecute. Did Neville suspect Jeremy & got a confession from Jeremy. Probably.

Anyway, Jeremy trusted Julie enough to have her help him. He also trusted that she would keep quiet.

Did he trust her enough after the murders, especially if he said he had hired a hit man.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 06:10:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2013, 06:13:PM »
Did the mysterious phone call from Neville to Jeremy happen ?

Well I posted 19 reasons why Neville would not make the call. Neville would just have to think of one of those.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2013, 06:17:PM »
YOU can't give ONE reason why Nevill wouldn't have made that call. Nevill was the only one to know what he would do.....................and only then when he was faced with it.

Offline Adam

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2013, 06:18:PM »
I posted that Mugford would not accuse an innocent man of planning & arranging a murder because he had apparently dumped her.

The judge tends to agree. Saying she kept to her version over nearly 2 days under expert cross examination. She cried but was not the first young woman to cry in court.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline susan

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Re: Judges summing up : His main points.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2013, 06:19:PM »
Adam  I must have missed your 19 reasons for Nevill not making the call must read back through your posts then again maybe not ;D