The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Caroline]

Hey Caroline have you been partying a lot - you seem to have over looked my post (when you have answered or made other posts).

So let's hear your theory about Sheila's print on the shotgun?

I won't give up 

Hmmmmm, let me think .......... Oh I know, she must have picked it up at some point?  Hardly a revelation!!

[Nickos]

Hmmmmm, let me think .......... Oh I know, she must have picked it up at some point?  Hardly a revelation!!

Wow that's quite a theory. Maybe she didn't pick it up, but just pressed her finger/thumb against it to fool us all 

[Caroline]

Wow that's quite a theory. Maybe she didn't pick it up, but just pressed her finger/thumb against it to fool us all 

Nah!! I'd say she picked it up -however, we would need to know how man prints were found. Just one? Or many? Or were there others that could have been hers but not clear enough to identify (as with the rifle)? 

[Adam]

The jury would have discussed this to
 
Reasons for Neville not to phone Jeremy -

Jeremy may not answer the phone. If he does it may not be for a long time. It was 3am. Jeremy himself said in the interview transcripts he slept 'like a log' that night.

Jeremy will not be over for a long time. He has to get dressed & drive over.

Neville is putting his son Jeremy in danger. Sheila has gone 'crazy' with a gun.

Neville was big, strong & had been in the army. As the head of the family his pride will make him want to resolve the situation. As Jeremy said, Neville would want to keep things private. If Jeremy knew Neville liked to keep things private, why did he phone the police ?

Jeremy & Sheila did not get on. Jeremy telling the police on the night 'I don't get on with her at all. I don't like her & she does'nt like me'. Jeremy also told the police on the night Sheila is a 'nutter'.

Jeremy has said himself that in 1985 he did not understand Sheila's illness. Neville would have known this & knew Jeremy may be insensitive in a serious situation.

Several people have testified that Jeremy hated his parents. Neville would be aware of this. Would Jeremy be bothered enough to drive over quickly, or drive over at all ?  The police have testified that Jeremy was driving very slowly to WHF.

Having Jeremy there would make the situation worse. Barbara Wilson said there was often a bad atmosphere in the house when Jeremy was present.

Neville answered the phone that evening before 10am. He was apparently short & the caller said it sounded like she had interrupted an argument. Had Jeremy been upsetting people ? If so it is doubtful Nevill will ask him back over a few hours later.

Having more people in the house may make Sheila more 'crazy'.

Jeremy did not have a front door key (as far as I know). Was a 'crazy' Sheila going to let Neville answer the front door ? Or was Jeremy going to shout through the letterbox !

Jeremy was not known for being especially brave or macho. Certainly no more so than Neville. As mentioned Jeremy was seen driving very slowly to WHF.

According to Barbara Wilson,  Neville knew Jeremy had broken into the caravan site & stole nearly £1,000. Neville & Jeremy's relationship at the time would have been very poor.

Jeremy claimed several years later that there was proof Neville phoned the police. The EP have never said they got a call from Neville. However if Jeremy is correct the police would be more experienced in dealing with this sort of situation. So Neville would not need to call Jeremy.

There is no time for Neville to make a phone call. Dial up phones are slow & the phone numbers in Essex are long. Jeremy may not answer for a long time.

Although Neville was proud, he was not stupid. In this serious situation if he was going to use the phone it would be to dial 999. Why ring Jeremy if the police were coming over ?

In the heat of the moment it is doubtful Neville will think 'let me phone Jeremy who will sort everything out'.

Jeremy had worked a long day at the farm. Tomorrow would be another long day. Neville knew Jeremy needed his rest.

Neville & Sheila got on well. If Neville could not contain her, Jeremy certainly could not.

[Adam]

For Droosie who mentioned the phone calls the other day.

Neville would just need to think of one reason not to phone. That is if he had time. After all 'Sheila has gone crazy (in her nightie) & has got the gun'.

[Jane]

For Droosie who mentioned the phone calls the other day.

Neville would just need to think of one reason not to phone. That is if he had time. After all 'Sheila has gone crazy (in her nightie) & has got the gun'.

Have you also explained that VERY LITTLE of what you say -EVER- is documented fact, merely your own interpretation of it.

[Adam]

If I ring someone. The phone may not be answered. Fact.

If sleeping like a log, with my phone downstairs. My phone may not be answered. Or if answered it will be after several rings. Fact.

Etc.

[Jane]

If I ring someone. The phone may not be answered. Fact.

If sleeping like a log, with my phone downstairs. My phone may not be answered. Or if answered it will be after several rings. Fact.

Etc.

Thank-you for sharing that.

[Adam]

I have just been thanked by April. Fact.

[susan]

Adam thought when we discussed this earlier we decided 5 rings as the phone was at the bottom of the stairs in a very small house or did you say 25 cannot quite remember.

[susan]

Adam we are all thankful you share your thoughts with us

[Adam]

Sleeping like a log upstairs. Bedroom door perhaps shut. It would take me 50 rings. But my answer machine would have kicked in within 3- 5 rings.

Oh I forgot, Jeremy had turned his answering machine off.

[susan]

Adam I knew your amount of rings had a 5 in it somewhere

[Droosie]

For Droosie who mentioned the phone calls the other day.

Neville would just need to think of one reason not to phone. That is if he had time. After all 'Sheila has gone crazy (in her nightie) & has got the gun'.

Thank you for clarifying that Adam, this thread is an interesting read. Lots of opinions and ideas.

I still lean to "guilty as charged" simply because Jeremy had the motive, the means and the opportunity. Plus a lot of what he said after just does not add up for me.

I don't want an innocent man behind bars but equally I don't want a man capable and willing of shooting two six year old children in the head walking free. I still tend towards guilt in Jeremy's case.

Granted the original police investigation was botched because...well they dealt with things differently then AND they thought they were dealing with murders/suicide.

Dunno WHAT to think about Julie Mugford....she and I are about the same age....I thik back to those times and wonder if I could have acted as she did...knowing that two children had been murdered. No I could not have done...I would have gone straight to the police if I thought my boyfriend had been guilty of such a heinous crime.
Then again she says he told her that a hit man did the killing......personally if I had been in her position I wold have been very very afraid.

[Roch]

...personally if I had been in her position I wold have been very very afraid.

Apparently she was very afraid, of Essex Police.