The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[gringo]

I don't see how the prosecution case falls apart if there were more than one gun used. Jeremy  probably entered by the downstairs cloakroom as he had done many times before in the past,thereby passing an array of weapons. The reported hearing of a shot fired in the vicinity of White House Farm around 11:30pm  cannot be tied to an exhausted Sheila climbing the stairs to bed.

Why would EP go to such lengths to fabricate a one gun scenario if it makes no difference ?
     You accept that it is fabricated but see no reason to question why ? Intellectual curiosity not your forte is it Steve ?
    The hand swabs, dubious as they are, are used by guilters as showing that Sheila could not have reloaded the "one gun" but now we cannot know if she had to.
    This is where the magical Pargeter rifle becomes an issue or it should to those curious enough. I call it a magical rifle because if you believe Pargeter then you also believe that his rifle was in two places at the same time . Which leads us to SBJ2 a photograph taken by Stan Jones on the morning of 7/8/85, of the downstairs toilet where Pargeter's rifle was normally kept. This photograph has disappeared. Does none of this make you suspect that the whole scenario put by the prosecution is fabricated?
     The issue of Sheila's fingerprints on the shotgun which you dismissed as irrelevant when Caroline raised it with you, when coupled with your admission that there was more than one gun used, is baffling. The implications are obvious and you are being naive or wilfully blind if you cannot see that.
     

[gringo]

But there were 25 shots fired,so even with two guns she has to reload. You've got to explain the blood spatter on the nightie,and so many other unlikely events discussed many times before:the ammunition left out with small children in the house,Nevill's cordless telephone probably tampered with by Jeremy,the removal of the bedroom telephone,the removal of the sights when they would have assisted the shooting of rabbits..

Pargeter's rifle held 15 bullets so we don't know if she had to reload .

[curiousessex]

Imo they have to insist Jerremy Bamber is a psychopath/sociopath in order for their theories to make any sort of sense.  It is VERY hard to believe that anyone other than someone with a severe personality disorder would be capableofo carrying out such horrendous crimes on their nearest and dearest and then coolly turn up and meet the police outside the farmhouse a couple of hours later.  So we hear that JB is some sort of super psychopath who can deceive the most practiced and experienced psychologists, can pass the tests that check he isn't hiding his psychopathy and generally have never shown any violence in any way to anyone in his life even to the point he's called a 'pansy' by some of his extended rellies because of his hatred of killing anything.

With the greatest of respect any opinion in this matter and in the scheme of things / in the context of the events that unfolded are irrelevant. Such opinion is not required or necessary before a court of law or jury for a criminal case to be heard.

In any event even if Jeremy does have some kind mental health disorder or specific personality traits they will only have been diagnosed and recognised post event which in all probability says a lot.

The facts remain in the opinion of the Jury and regardless of whether Jeremy is or is not a psychopath / sociopath he was found guilty by a majority verdict of 10 to 2.

[gringo]

Because the Prosecution scenario is that Jeremy staged the scene to suit his own ends.

But now you accept that some fabrication has taken place by the prosecution, it isn't convincing that Jeremy staged the scene, especially as the accusation is made by those, that even you now accept manipulated the ballistics evidence .

[HMEssex]

With the greatest of respect any opinion in this matter and in the scheme of things / in the context of the events that unfolded are irrelevant. Such opinion is not required or necessary before a court of law or jury for a criminal case to be heard.

In any event even if Jeremy does have some kind mental health disorder or specific personality traits they will only have been diagnosed and recognised post event which in all probability says a lot.

The facts remain in the opinion of the Jury and regardless of whether Jeremy is or is not a psychopath / sociopath he was found guilty by a majority verdict of 10 to 2.

What are you on about?  He's been tested post event 27 times and does NOT have any psychopathic/sociopathic traits.

[gringo]

I was probably one of the first to read Hunter,but as Caroline stated in a recent post it's not gospel  just because he was an MP,though one would assume that you had your facts right before you stood up in the House of Commons.  It was the anschutz which was found lying atop Sheila's body and the anschutz which had been left loaded the night before around the settle area and I can't see what material difference a second gun makes if you believe that Jeremy was plotting to kill his family for almost a year..

Hunter's interpretations and opinions are not gospel . His laying out of the ballistics evidence is factual . From these facts you concluded that it was not a one gun crime because it is clear from the evidence . Opinion doesn't really come into it.

[curiousessex]

What are you on about?  He's been tested post event 27 times and does NOT have any psychopathic/sociopathic traits.

Why is Jeremy being tested 27 times of any relevance?

[Jane]

Why would EP go to such lengths to fabricate a one gun scenario if it makes no difference ?
     You accept that it is fabricated but see no reason to question why ? Intellectual curiosity not your forte is it Steve ?
    The hand swabs, dubious as they are, are used by guilters as showing that Sheila could not have reloaded the "one gun" but now we cannot know if she had to.
    This is where the magical Pargeter rifle becomes an issue or it should to those curious enough. I call it a magical rifle because if you believe Pargeter then you also believe that his rifle was in two places at the same time . Which leads us to SBJ2 a photograph taken by Stan Jones on the morning of 7/8/85, of the downstairs toilet where Pargeter's rifle was normally kept. This photograph has disappeared. Does none of this make you suspect that the whole scenario put by the prosecution is fabricated?
     The issue of Sheila's fingerprints on the shotgun which you dismissed as irrelevant when Caroline raised it with you, when coupled with your admission that there was more than one gun used, is baffling. The implications are obvious and you are being naive or wilfully blind if you cannot see that.
   

Gringo, I think Steve would find it emotionally impossible to take on board the possibility of Jeremy's innocence. For him all of this seems to have been about justifying what Julie did and exonerating her for it. I think the only time he MAY accuse her of lying is if she suddenly remembered that she may have made a "mistake" in some of what she said and changed her story, but it would probably be the new version  which he'd say was a lie. I think, and of course, it's only my opinion, that for Steve, Jeremy MUST be guilty and must STAY guilty.

[curiousessex]

Gringo, I think Steve would find it emotionally impossible to take on board the possibility of Jeremy's innocence. For him all of this seems to have been about justifying what Julie did and exonerating her for it. I think the only time he MAY accuse her of lying is if she suddenly remembered that she may have made a "mistake" in some of what she said and changed her story, but it would probably be the new version  which he'd say was a lie. I think, and of course, it's only my opinion, that for Steve, Jeremy MUST be guilty and must STAY guilty.

In the eyes of the law Jeremy is guilty and still remains guilty.

[Jane]

In the eyes of the law Jeremy is guilty and still remains guilty.

At the moment, but that wasn't my point.

[HMEssex]

Why is Jeremy being tested 27 times of any relevance?

In case there's any doubt?!! 

[curiousessex]

At the moment, but that wasn't my point.

It may not have been your point but it is and remains the most important fact.

[curiousessex]

In case there's any doubt?!! 

Any doubt of what?

[lookout]

One can have an undiagnosed mental illness for years,but there has to be signs at some point in their lives,,and if Jeremy was one of these people,there would have been the smallest sign which would have shown itself before now.
 Even if there'd been a possibility of him having committed the murders, in all these years,there'd have been an indication of a mental illness,especially as there are cameras 24/7 surveying behaviours and interactions with others. 

[gringo]

Gringo, I think Steve would find it emotionally impossible to take on board the possibility of Jeremy's innocence. For him all of this seems to have been about justifying what Julie did and exonerating her for it. I think the only time he MAY accuse her of lying is if she suddenly remembered that she may have made a "mistake" in some of what she said and changed her story, but it would probably be the new version  which he'd say was a lie. I think, and of course, it's only my opinion, that for Steve, Jeremy MUST be guilty and must STAY guilty.

April. that is why I was surprised that Steve admitted that the ballistics convinced him that it wasn't a one gun crime as portrayed by the prosecution. He hasn't thought through the consequences that this has on the prosecution case . He seems to believe that you can remove whole chunks of the official narrative without consequences on the rest of the story.
    As I said this is naivete or wilful blindness or quite possibly a bit of both.