The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[lookout]

I wonder if when Ralph phoned Jeremy and said that Sheila had got the gun he was referring to the shotgun which he managed to wrestle from her? Just a wild thought that's all.

Not a wild thought at all Grahame. It could be nearer the truth than you imagine.

[grahameb]

Morning lookout

sadly you are right Julie IMO was prompted and coerced into testifying against Jeremy obviously the carrots offered her i.e. no criminal charges and a newspaper deal were a great incentive and she was putty in the hands of Stan the Man and maybe she half convinced herself she was speaking the truth.  Now years on she would be interested to know the truth steve's words not mine)

She was obviously coached. Just look at the price hanging over her head. The police were in charge of the helm.

[susan]

Hi Grahame/lookout I think you could be right about the shotgun.

[grahameb]

I think you should change you name to 'Simplesimon' LOL, ROLF, LMFAO, ROFLMFAO 

[lookout]

Hi Grahame/lookout I think you could be right about the shotgun.

I actually think that Sheila realised that it would be a greater sound coming from a shotgun ?,,hence her having held it before changing her mind,,though it would have appeared as though it had been fired at some point. I'm not conversant at all with either shotgun or rifle,but because that first injury to Sheilas' neck was not a whole bullet,,could it have been ammunition fired from a shotgun,,which Sheila originally had hold of ?

[grahameb]

I actually think that Sheila realised that it would be a greater sound coming from a shotgun ?,,hence her having held it before changing her mind,,though it would have appeared as though it had been fired at some point. I'm not conversant at all with either shotgun or rifle,but because that first injury to Sheilas' neck was not a whole bullet,,could it have been ammunition fired from a shotgun,,which Sheila originally had hold of ?

If Sheila had used a shotgun on herself I think it would have blown her head off? The shotgun was not used in the house, as there would have been some evidence in the shape of.....er shotgun marks on the walls/ceilings etc. Perhaps Ralph used it outside for some reason?

[lookout]

 

[campion]

How's this for coincidence:-
      Simple MACHINES
          -"-   MINDS
          -"-   SIEMON (Sic)

Steve UK's Post #51, re Quote by Martin in 'Off Topic' quote in Starryian......., 1/2way down:-
      "What a complete MOBY you are"- which in Cockney Rhyming Slang (CRS) indicates MOBY DICK, the whale and ergo means in derogatory fashion ""YOU PRICK"", Sir Simeon (Idiot), whoever you are?

Compare this with a vverse in a vversion of Simple Simon(from Honda site) :-
      "Simple Simon went a'fishing, for to catch a WHALE,
       All the water he had got, was in his Mother's pail"

      -And now poor (ie no money) Simple Simeon bids us all ADIEU.   Sooooo 2's up (VV) Sunbeam!!

       " THE TRUTH NEVER SLEEPS, EVER" -MRDavies.

[gringo]

If Sheila had used a shotgun on herself I think it would have blown her head off? The shotgun was not used in the house, as there would have been some evidence in the shape of.....er shotgun marks on the walls/ceilings etc. Perhaps Ralph used it outside for some reason?

Morning Grahame , it is quite likely that the shotgun was used and there is evidence to support this scenario. Different size entry wounds on the victims indicate most strongly that more than one type of ammunition was used that night. Sheila's prints on the shotgun show that she handled it at some stage and the evidence trail of the ballistics evidence shows quite clearly that EP switched crime scene ammunition.
      Steve UK foolishly admitted last night that after reading Hunter he now accepts that the premise of the one gun crime scenario to be false. I don't think he has thought through what the consequences of this admission are to the credibility of the prosecution case .
     As for there being no evidence of a shotgun being used, you can be sure that if EP had needed the shotgun to have been used to implicate JB then there would have been evidence to show this. To find prints on the shotgun indicates that police thought it's use likely or why test it in the first place ?
         I would like to see the ballistics evidence used for SC/688/85 when it was regarded as suicide plus four murders because it cannot be the same as that later presented.
       There is a reason the ballistics evidence was destroyed by EP in 1996.
     

[grahameb]

Morning Grahame , it is quite likely that the shotgun was used and there is evidence to support this scenario. Different size entry wounds on the victims indicate most strongly that more than one type of ammunition was used that night. Sheila's prints on the shotgun show that she handled it at some stage and the evidence trail of the ballistics evidence shows quite clearly that EP switched crime scene ammunition.
      Steve UK foolishly admitted last night that after reading Hunter he now accepts that the premise of the one gun crime scenario to be false. I don't think he has thought through what the consequences of this admission are to the credibility of the prosecution case .
     As for there being no evidence of a shotgun being used, you can be sure that if EP had needed the shotgun to have been used to implicate JB then there would have been evidence to show this. To find prints on the shotgun indicates that police thought it's use likely or why test it in the first place ?
         I would like to see the ballistics evidence used for SC/688/85 when it was regarded as suicide plus four murders because it cannot be the same as that later presented.
       There is a reason the ballistics evidence was destroyed by EP in 1996.
     

Hi Gringo. It does appear that the police were very selective about which pieces of evidence they destroyed in 1996? And by destroying the evidence it is an indication in my view at any rate that, that evidence was somehow incriminating towards the police?

[Alias]

You're a lying piece of shit

Now, now, SirSimeon...

[Steve_uk]

Doesn't this cast doubt on the rest of the case in your opinion?
      Once you accept that it is not a one gun crime then surely the rest of the prosecution case melts away .
    So much of the prosecution case relies on the killings being a one gun crime that once you accept there was more than one gun used that night the prosecution falls apart . It also gives a more sinister twist to Antony Pargeter's contradictory statements regarding the whereabouts of his own rifle that night . It certainly at least hints towards collusion between AP and EP to be able to present the one gun crime scenario upon which they relied in court .
     Does the fabricated ballistic evidence not raise further and disturbing questions to challenge your views on the case ?

I don't see how the prosecution case falls apart if there were more than one gun used. Jeremy  probably entered by the downstairs cloakroom as he had done many times before in the past,thereby passing an array of weapons. The reported hearing of a shot fired in the vicinity of White House Farm around 11:30pm  cannot be tied to an exhausted Sheila climbing the stairs to bed.

[lookout]

So an "exhausted Sheila " couldn't muster up the energy to have quickly rang the police as a " threatening Jeremy " entered the farmhouse ? The phone then was upstairs,remember.

[Steve_uk]

I am surprised that Steve admitted what he did regarding the ballistics . Usually the guilters have nothing to say on these matters realising that the pretence of a one gun crime is essential to maintain a credible belief in JB's guilt.
    How many times have we been told that one of the biggest problems with the innocent side is to explain the lack of residue on Sheila's hands in having to reload at least twice ? In fact I am sure that Steve has raised this as a problem himself(often) before but he has now solved the mystery of a lack of residue on Sheila's hands all on his own if he just cares to joins the dots. We cannot now know if Sheila had to reload at all although the evidence, that Steve now lends such weight to, would suggest that no reloading was required. 

   

But there were 25 shots fired,so even with two guns she has to reload. You've got to explain the blood spatter on the nightie,and so many other unlikely events discussed many times before:the ammunition left out with small children in the house,Nevill's cordless telephone probably tampered with by Jeremy,the removal of the bedroom telephone,the removal of the sights when they would have assisted the shooting of rabbits..

[Steve_uk]

Morning lookout

sadly you are right Julie IMO was prompted and coerced into testifying against Jeremy obviously the carrots offered her i.e. no criminal charges and a newspaper deal were a great incentive and she was putty in the hands of Stan the Man and maybe she half convinced herself she was speaking the truth.  Now years on she would be interested to know the truth steve's words not mine)

Jeremy never confessed,which would totally absolve Julie from the latest vitriol here and set Colin's mind at rest. As the Christmas season is upon us I think this is a task for a religious man,a man of the cloth..