The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Adam]

That contradicts Dr. Craig, who timed the deaths at 8am.

[maggie]

 

You can't change the observations of an autopsy either but by the time Vanezis made a statement, his initial observations  in respect to blood on Sheila's hands had done a 380 degree turn!! Why don't you question that?

A prime example which proves Adam isn't the least bit open minded, he just repeats the mantra of the red forum imo.
If he was at all interested in 'the truth' he would surely do better than just repeating , myths and half truths imo

[Adam]

What time did the police break in ?

Don't see why this is an issue. Everyone was dead inside upon entry.

[Adam]

Forensic ? He shot people. The carpets were removed. What forensics ?

Burglary ? Bit extreme that turning into a massacre with women & children being shot.

The police phone call has been discussed before. It is not a bad idea. Neville phoned Jeremy at home, Sheila has gone crazy, she is nutter,  arriving after the police etc.

Time of deaths ? Obviously before 8am.

The police made mistakes early on but had the guts to admit it and change direction.

Need to change this a bit. Forensic, it was 1985, not todays CSI era. There was forensic evidence. The silencer.

Is the bathroom window marks & matching hacksaw forensic or circumstantial.

[Adam]

Talking of driving slowly to WHF. It was said in court that Jeremy asked the police to pick him up at his cottage.

The prosecution argued that was so Jeremy could show he was at home.

[susan]

Morning Adam

marks on the windows from hacksaw not relevant as Jeremy had volunteered the fact he often accessed the farm through a window so it was no secret.  It has since been established the blood in the silencer was not a match for Sheila as such.

[susan]

Adam that is not evidence pure conjecture.  It had been established Jeremy's car had been parked outside of his house all night.

[Adam]

The pathologist in court testified that the first bullet would have -

Stunned Sheila.

Caused a lot of bleeding.

Sheila would have been disabled by the shock of the injury.

Sheila would have been disabled by the pain of the injury.

Sheila would not be able to walk up & down the stairs after getting the first bullet.

[susan]

Adam nobody knew if everyone was dead inside WHF.  The police must have had doubts as that is why they sent for armed backup.

[Adam]

Jeremys official website claimed Sheila shot herself downstairs & then walked upstairs & shot herself again.

But a pathologist testified in court that was impossible. See above.

Why were there two cartridges next to Sheila upstairs ?

[Adam]

Adam that is not evidence pure conjecture.  It had been established Jeremy's car had been parked outside of his house all night.

I am sure the car did not move.  He would have cycled there. There were lots of routes he would know. The bike was outside his cottage.

Asking the police to pick him up makes it seem more like Jeremy has been at home all night & received Nevilles call.

[Adam]

Adam nobody knew if everyone was dead inside WHF.  The police must have had doubts as that is why they sent for armed backup.

Agree nobody knew what was happening inside. The police did call armed back up. They had been told Sheila was a 'nutter' & Neville had rang Jeremy. Although I recently gave 19 reasons why Neville would not ring Jeremy.

[Adam]

Morning Adam

marks on the windows from hacksaw not relevant as Jeremy had volunteered the fact he often accessed the farm through a window so it was no secret.  It has since been established the blood in the silencer was not a match for Sheila as such.

The tests available at the time showed it was a match. There were further tests years later, correct me if I am wrong but I believe Sheila matched 13 of 17 criteria showing it was her blood. A high percentage.

[Adam]

Morning Adam

marks on the windows from hacksaw not relevant as Jeremy had volunteered the fact he often accessed the farm through a window so it was no secret.  It has since been established the blood in the silencer was not a match for Sheila as such.

Do you think Jeremy climbed through the bathroom on the night of the murders. Or was tucked up in bed with his teddy bear ?

[mike tesko]

Jeremys official website claimed Sheila shot herself downstairs & then walked upstairs & shot herself again.

But a pathologist testified in court that was impossible.

Why were there two cartridges next to Sheila ?

Hi Adam,

First of all, there is evidence contained in the file to strongly suggest that a total of four bullet cases were added to the bedroom scenario by police once the nature of the investigation changed from SC/688/85 into SC/786/85. These four added bullet cases are identified by the exhibit references of DRH/1, DRH/2, DRH/3 and DRH/4. It may or may not surprise you to know that the two bullet cases supposedly found next to Sheila's body, were / are, DRH/1 and DRH/2. These particular bullet cases were not on the bedroom floor next to Sheila's body when Sheila died inside the bedroom, albeit, at least one other bullet case was photographed in close proximity to her body by scenes of crime officer, PC Bird...

Therefore...

A total of only 9 bullet cases were originally found in the general vicinity of the main bedroom, doorway and top landing...

June was shot seven times, before she was killed off, which leaves two other bullet cases to be accounted for. Now at this juncture, you can either choose to go with the police version of events, namely, that Ralph had been shot 4 times whilst he was upstairs in the main bedroom, in which case, you then have a logistical problem, since, how could Ralph be shot four times in the bedroom, with only two bullet cases to account for? Furthermore, how did Sheila come to be shot twice in the bedroom, if you have to accommodate the four shots to Ralph Bamber, and the two additional shots (PV/20 and PV/19) to Sheila? You have got 6 additional shots (aforementioned) but only two available spent bullet cases in the bedroom...

It is much more likely, that June was shot up to 7 times in the bedroom, and that Ralph was shot once, and Sheila shot once - making a total of 9 shots fired in the bedroom. Alternatively, I am prepared to accept that Ralph may have been shot twice in the bedroom, with June receiving the other 7 bullets...