The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Caroline R]

Hearsay. My scensrio matches the crime scene & bullet allocation. The interview transcripts are online for everyone to see. Jeremy did jump on police notes saying 'conversations in the house' & 'one man & one woman in the kitchen'.

You're pretty taken with you scenario aren't you? I think you might be in a majority of one there but it's keeping you amused.

[Caroline R]

You can bet that the jury would have discussed how Sheila was able to kill two adults & two children, re load twice & allow Neville to make two phone calls.

If they could have not come up with a realistic scenario, they would have to return a guilty verdict.

Why would they discuss 2 phone calls? The second log (Neville's call to the police) came to light much later. You need to do more research!! You admitted that you're quite lazy in that respect, I guess that's why your scenario reads that way!! 

[lookout]

You can bet that the jury would have discussed how Sheila was able to kill two adults & two children, re load twice & allow Neville to make two phone calls.

If they could have not come up with a realistic scenario, they would have to return a guilty verdict.

If the jury had been given the full history about Sheila,,then things would have turned out differently. I can assure you of that.

[tyler]

Adam,it actually appears that it was the 'blood in the silencer' evidence that swayed the jury. They seemed to have been confused about the evidence regarding this and put a question to the judge. They wanted to know if the blood was definately exclusive to Sheila and the judge WRONGLY directed them that it indeed was.

[lookout]

If the jury had been given the full history about Sheila,,then things would have turned out differently. I can assure you of that.

Adam,,Sheilas' health had deteriorated rapidly in the weeks leading up to the murders. Made worse by a GP halving vital medication which was to keep her calm. That,coupled with cannabis,,the issues over the twins was the recipe for disaster.
Sheila had it in mind that she didn't want her medication controlling her,,instead,she.herself wanted to be in control of a situation which must have been festering in her mind that night.
Even Colin said " she'd finally done it " when he was told the news that day. Did he know something that nobody else did ? Had she told him that if she wasn't going to have the twins,nobody else was ??

[grahameb]

Was Sheila experienced enough with guns to re load quickly. Twice ? Where were the other cartridges ? Where was Neville & June when this was being done ?

Exactly the same questions can be posed if it were Jeremy Adam. In fact more so as he would have had Sheila to contend with as well.

[grahameb]

Nickos,,I think ALL our thoughts tallied first off until some of us began to realise that all wasn't well,,then we set off questioning Jeremys' insistance that he was innocent. It's what you believe,,or choose to in this case,,though it shouldn't be that way,as he either did,or he didn't,,and even that conclusion isn't right either if it was in a court of law.
Whichever way it's looked at,,it was an unfair trial in anyones books.

I quite understand why Nick holds the views he does. I also have my doubts about somethings to do with Jeremy. I have no affection towards him for a start. It is just that there are some big questions to be answered concerning the way the investigation and the trial were handled.  Simply on a legal note I don't think he had a fair trial. That is all my view consists of really. I don't mind others having the oppsite views to me. It is just that some will not believe anything unless it fits into their pet senario.

[Adam]

Why would they discuss 2 phone calls? The second log (Neville's call to the police) came to light much later. You need to do more research!! You admitted that you're quite lazy in that respect, I guess that's why your scenario reads that way!! 

Oh, my mistake. At no time have the Essex police said they got a call from Neville. If they had then it would have been reported as soon as anyone suspected Jeremy. Unless the whole of EP are framing him.

Trying to prove Neville phoned the police must have been brought up much later. Along with the 'conversations inside the house' & 'two bodies downstairs' claims.

[grahameb]

Well, yes.

As said someone who looked through the window said 'one female in the kitchen' (Neville).

Upon entering it was reported there was one male in the kitchen (Neville).

A written report from someone not at the scene says 'one female & one male in the kitchen'. Jeremy jumped on this several years later.


The thought that Sheila was in the kitchen, still alive. Then got up, walked upstairs without being seen, then shot herself without being heard is darkly comical. Or perhaps she was seen & heard & everyone is lying to frame Jeremy ?

No. If you read the logs it clearly says "one dead male and one dead female upon entry". They were a running commentary at the time. That was not said later. and then when they went upstairs they reported 3 more dead.

[Adam]

Adam,,Sheilas' health had deteriorated rapidly in the weeks leading up to the murders. Made worse by a GP halving vital medication which was to keep her calm. That,coupled with cannabis,,the issues over the twins was the recipe for disaster.
Sheila had it in mind that she didn't want her medication controlling her,,instead,she.herself wanted to be in control of a situation which must have been festering in her mind that night.
Even Colin said " she'd finally done it " when he was told the news that day. Did he know something that nobody else did ? Had she told him that if she wasn't going to have the twins,nobody else was ??

Did the defence call Colin to testify ?

[grahameb]

I said the defence consulted several psychiatrists to see if they felt Sheila was capable of going on such a murderous rampage. They all said 'no'.

Could you please put up a link or a copy of who and where they said that?

[Adam]

It is in Roger Wilke's book. Chapter 26, page 182.

[tyler]

How can anyone possibly state for certain that Sheila had to reload the rifle twice? Another weapon was found downstairs with red paint on the barrel,but oddly enough,this fact appears to have been covered up. And since ten of the bullets could not be matched to the Anschutz,there is always the possibility that two weapons were used in the murders. Red paint on the barrel of this second weapon and the existence of it were clearly covered up in order for the red paint (and all the other phony evidence) to be introduced into a silencer. A silencer that Sheila "couldn't possibly" have returned to the gun cupboard AFTER she had committed suicide. Clever plan...and the sad thing is that it worked!

[grahameb]

You can bet that the jury would have discussed how Sheila was able to kill two adults & two children, re load twice & allow Neville to make two phone calls.

If they could have not come up with a realistic scenario, they would have to return a guilty verdict.

Not so. They must first prove that Jeremy was at the scene. But instead of listening to the evidence they listened to the judge, who in my opinion was wrong.

[Caroline R]

Oh, my mistake. At no time have the Essex police said they got a call from Neville. If they had then it would have been reported as soon as anyone suspected Jeremy. Unless the whole of EP are framing him.

Trying to prove Neville phoned the police must have been brought up much later. Along with the 'conversations inside the house' & 'two bodies downstairs' claims.

MUCH later!!