The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Caroline R]

I have!

OK, I will give in to you request for a "scenario". It is bound to be flawed, and I don´t really like doing this, but here goes.
I believe the twins were shot first. In a way I think they were the main target; the twins and Sheila herself. Sheila had some very unsettling thoughts about them: they were the Devil´s children, and she was afraid they were capable of raping and killing her (Sheila´s own words). Also keeping in mind June´s words to Sheila: You are the Devil´s child, in her twisted mind Sheila could have done this as a revenge to/request from her mother.
The shots woke her parents up, or Sheila came to the bedroom with the rifle shouting at them, I don´t know. Her parents in their wildest dreams would not imagine she had shot the twins or would shoot any of them - if they had heard the shots, they would have thought she just shot into walls, floor or ceiling in the corridor. Perhaps Neville managed to calm her down momentarily and thought it would be safe to run downstairs to alert Jeremy (and the police??). Then all hell broke lose in the bedroom, perhaps shouting, perhaps Sheila shot June who was still in bed, petrified. Neville heard this.
Enter Neville in the bedroom, got shot four times, stumbled down the stairs, got shot again on the way down. Sheila after him. The fight took place - Neville, severely injured, would not have been hard for Sheila to overpower, I think he received some of the beating sitting down actually. Why the fight took place, I don´t know, probably because she needed to reloand the rifle, maybe paired with the fact that Sheila felt especially betrayed by Neville who had hitherto been on her side, but recently had agreed that it would be a good idea to put the twins in foster care. Who knows.
Sheila goes upstairs, shoots June between the eyes as a final act of revenge and contempt.
Sheila might not have gone to bed at all that night (stomach contents support this - the look of her bed supports this) and would have still be wearing her day clothes during the killings. She might have have taken off those clothes, put them in soak (sounds odd, but the atmosphere about Sheila in death is "clean", she looks very, very clean. Perhaps this whole thing was a catharsis for her), taken a bath and put on her night gown, prepering herself for her suicide, reading the Bible, then shooting herself close to her mother for whom she had done all this: ridding the world of the "Devil´s children": Herself and the twins. "Ha, mother, see what I did, I did it FOR YOU!"

This makes sense to me, there is a logic in it, if I may say so myself! Sheila was a woman who had lost EVERYTHING. Her career, all petty jobs, her husband, her sanity and was now about to lose her children, whom she had already lost partially.

It is a good scenario Alias but, if the twins were shot first that would be at least 8 shots, then if June was next, that would be at least one more shot - that only leaves 2 for Neville. However, he was shot 4 times so unless she took extra amo it doesn't account for all of the shots fired.  I certainly agree with your reasoning though!!

[Alias]

It is a good scenario Alias but, if the twins were shot first that would be at least 8 shots, then if June was next, that would be at least one more shot - that only leaves 2 for Neville. However, he was shot 4 times so unless she took extra amo it doesn't account for all of the shots fired.  I certainly agree with your reasoning though!!

I said it would be flawed! However, let´s say Sheila shot the Twins with fewer shots initially, say, two each or only one, or one for one twin, two for the other, before going to her parents´ bedroom, that´s two to four, then one or two for June, that leaves enough for Neville. She could have gone back and shot the twins and June again after she killed Neville.
Or she could have reloaded after the twins were shot before entering the bedroom. OR she could have made two rifles ready.

[Adam]

Adam go and pump iron and think of the brilliant scenario Alias put up and whatever you do don't think of Barnsley

My scenario is on page 20.

[Adam]

I have!

OK, I will give in to you request for a "scenario". It is bound to be flawed, and I don´t really like doing this, but here goes.
I believe the twins were shot first. In a way I think they were the main target; the twins and Sheila herself. Sheila had some very unsettling thoughts about them: they were the Devil´s children, and she was afraid they were capable of raping and killing her (Sheila´s own words). Also keeping in mind June´s words to Sheila: You are the Devil´s child, in her twisted mind Sheila could have done this as a revenge to/request from her mother.
The shots woke her parents up, or Sheila came to the bedroom with the rifle shouting at them, I don´t know. Her parents in their wildest dreams would not imagine she had shot the twins or would shoot any of them - if they had heard the shots, they would have thought she just shot into walls, floor or ceiling in the corridor. Perhaps Neville managed to calm her down momentarily and thought it would be safe to run downstairs to alert Jeremy (and the police??). Then all hell broke lose in the bedroom, perhaps shouting, perhaps Sheila shot June who was still in bed, petrified. Neville heard this.
Enter Neville in the bedroom, got shot four times, stumbled down the stairs, got shot again on the way down. Sheila after him. The fight took place - Neville, severely injured, would not have been hard for Sheila to overpower, I think he received some of the beating sitting down actually. Why the fight took place, I don´t know, probably because she needed to reloand the rifle, maybe paired with the fact that Sheila felt especially betrayed by Neville who had hitherto been on her side, but recently had agreed that it would be a good idea to put the twins in foster care. Who knows.
Sheila goes upstairs, shoots June between the eyes as a final act of revenge and contempt.
Sheila might not have gone to bed at all that night (stomach contents support this - the look of her bed supports this) and would have still be wearing her day clothes during the killings. She might have have taken off those clothes, put them in soak (sounds odd, but the atmosphere about Sheila in death is "clean", she looks very, very clean. Perhaps this whole thing was a catharsis for her), taken a bath and put on her night gown, prepering herself for her suicide, reading the Bible, then shooting herself close to her mother for whom she had done all this: ridding the world of the "Devil´s children": Herself and the twins. "Ha, mother, see what I did, I did it FOR YOU!"

This makes sense to me, there is a logic in it, if I may say so myself! Sheila was a woman who had lost EVERYTHING. Her career, all petty jobs, her husband, her sanity and was now about to lose her children, whom she had already lost partially.

My queries on this -

We only have Jeremys word on the potential fostering.

The children were shot 8 times. Without a silencer would she have the time to do this before being restrained ?

Neville & June calming her down will result in the gun being taken off her. Neville & June will now be aware of the twins death & will have the gun.

June would have been sent downstairs to make the phone calls. Neville is stronger & gets on better with Sheila.

Neville if downstairs did not need to ring Jeremy at 3am. The damage had been done & things were under control. The police were coming over.

If Neville heard shots from upstairs, he only heard two. The gun only had ten bullets, eight which had been used on the twins. He would have restrained her upstairs. June would have only been shot twice.

If everyone was shot & Sheila changed. Would the police not see bloodied clothes in a sink ?

[Caroline R]

I said it would be flawed! However, let´s say Sheila shot the Twins with fewer shots initially, say, two each or only one, or one for one twin, two for the other, before going to her parents´ bedroom, that´s two to four, then one or two for June, that leaves enough for Neville. She could have gone back and shot the twins and June again after she killed Neville.
Or she could have reloaded after the twins were shot before entering the bedroom. OR she could have made two rifles ready.

They're all flawed Alias, like you, I hate scenarios. We can't know what went on and the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets. Personally, I think the twins were killed after Neville and June. But that might be wrong also. I do know one thing, that if Neville called Jeremy, it 'had' to be 'before; anyone was shot or seriously injured. But if shots had been fired, I think he would have mentioned it.

[Adam]

I cant give you the scenario because the final position of the bodies was not clear , plus in the police exercise the bodies were moved as was the gun and its not clear about when or who took the photos or when. plus the carpets etc that might have shown patterns of blood belonging to the victims to prove any movements about the house were destroyed on orders of the police. Plus the ballistic evidence produced in court appears to be incorrect. So If someone produces a scenario what do you base it on?

But I have one question to ask you - if you believe JB did it when the police arrived that house would have been completely silent and no signs of movement at all . And taking into account this was before all todays H&S assesments etc, and the fact that they knew there were two young children possibly bleeding to death , why did they wait outside ( with JB with them ) for HOURS before going into the house? They would have heard nothing ( because all would have been dead) they would have seen nothing  so WHY wait so long even when the armed police arrived. This is the bit that to me does not add up. But if you see the entries in the police logs it makes perfect sense.

Jeremy claimed several years later there were conversations from outside the house. This was after seeing a log from an officer not at the house. Jeremy was at WHF from the first minute. He will know that was not the case.

So he was simply lying to try to get released.

There is a slim chance he was in his car & not aware of what was happening. However if there were conversations surely the police will tell Jeremy the good news, that people are alive. They will also need Jeremys help. After all Neville had asked him to come over & save the day.

Either way, he indirectly accused the Essex Police of framing him from day one.

[Adam]

They're all flawed Alias, like you, I hate scenarios. We can't know what went on and the more you think about it, the more complicated it gets. Personally, I think the twins were killed after Neville and June. But that might be wrong also. I do know one thing, that if Neville called Jeremy, it 'had' to be 'before; anyone was shot or seriously injured. But if shots had been fired, I think he would have mentioned it.

My scenario on page 20 matches the crime scene & bullet allocation.

It also does not include any phone calls ? !

[Caroline R]

Jeremy claimed several years later there were conversations from outside the house. This was after seeing a log from an officer not at the house. Jeremy was at WHF from the first minute. He will know that was not the case.

So he was simply lying to try to get released.

There is a slim chance he was in his car & not aware of what was happening. However if there were conversations surely the police will tell Jeremy the good news, that people are alive. They will also need Jeremys help. After all Neville had asked him to come over & save the day.

Either way, he indirectly accused the Essex Police of framing him from day one.

He didn't say he heard the conversation!! He was well back from the front line of events and had no idea what was going on. Of course he only mentioned it when the log was discovered - he didn't know anything about it until then!!

[Alias]

My queries on this -

We only have Jeremys word on the potential fostering.
The twins had been in day foster with a family before, it is not at all unlikely that this was discussed. Colin, with a new girlfriend, didn´t want the hassle - Sheila couldn´t cope. It is VERY likely this was discussed.

The children were shot 8 times. Without a silencer would she have the time to do this before being restrained ?
As I said in a post above, she might have shot the twins only once or twice initially, then returned after killing Neville, returned to shoot them again.

Neville & June calming her down will result in the gun being taken off her. Neville & June will now be aware of the twins death & will have the gun.
I agree that for Neville to go downstairs to make a phonecall, the rifle had to have been taken from Sheila - OR she just put it down. She could have grabbed it again though.

June would have been sent downstairs to make the phone calls. Neville is stronger & gets on better with Sheila.
Tells me a lot about how you regard women: June would have been SENT! Never mind.... We don´t know, perhaps it was June who momentarily calmed Sheila down, the beating of Neville indicates a big amount of rage towards him.

Neville if downstairs did not need to ring Jeremy at 3am. The damage had been done & things were under control. The police were coming over.
Neville must have been shocked and perhaps NEEDED to talk to Jeremy, his son with whom he worked on a daily basis.

If Neville heard shots from upstairs, he only heard two. The gun only had ten bullets, eight which had been used on the twins. He would have restrained her upstairs. June would have only been shot twice.
We don´t know that. We don´t know how many bullets were fired into each victim initially.

If everyone was shot & Sheila changed. Would the police not see bloodied clothes in a sink ?
The clothes were soaking in two buckets in the kitchen - there was blood in the water, at least in one of the buckets. Ann Eaton washed the blood away.

[Adam]

He didn't say he heard the conversation!! He was well back from the front line of events and had no idea what was going on. Of course he only mentioned it when the log was discovered - he didn't know anything about it until then!!

Not sure he was well back. He was directing things. If guilty, leading the police in one direction. Drawing maps & walking around the building.

[maggie]

Not sure he was well back. He was directing things. If guilty, leading the police in one direction. Drawing maps & walking around the building.

No Adam, he was not directing things, when he arrived he walked round the house with the police, he answered the questions they asked him but most of the time was in a police car well back from the farmhouse.

[susan]

Adam will read your scenario and get back to you with my comments.

[Patti]

Personally I can't see any book, film or website to be truthful to the point where it exonerates a person or implicates a person. 

The point of focus is forensic science, experiments and dedication to millions of documents. The answer lays here and no one will find it in any book. 

On saying that I think Roger Wilkes book is very good, its well researched and in places factual and this is what makes a good book. 

However, I can't wait to read Paul Harrison's book.....

[Adam]

Once a 6.4 & healthy Neville had the gun, he was not going to let it go.

If the twins were only shot two times each at first, the six bullets left would not be enough to restrain both June & Neville if she started shooting again.

Neville was in the bedroom long enough to be shot 4 times. Yet did not confront Sheila, who was running out of bullets. Instead running to the kitchen where he was beaten.

Jeremy did not get along with his dad. Or Sheila & June.

[Adam]

Adam will read your scenario and get back to you with my comments.

Good.