Author Topic: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.  (Read 115276 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #345 on: December 06, 2013, 02:42:PM »
That is a start Alias.

The problem I have is fitting in at least five minutes where Neville is cowering in the kitchen making two phone calls. Dial up phones are slow & the numbers in Essex are long. An asleep Jeremy may not answer for several rings.

She is either going crazy, so there is no time to make a phone call. Or she is not going crazy, so why make the phone calls ?


To be honest I have never answered a phone at 3am !
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:53:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #346 on: December 06, 2013, 02:52:PM »
I cant give you the scenario because the final position of the bodies was not clear , plus in the police exercise the bodies were moved as was the gun and its not clear about when or who took the photos or when. plus the carpets etc that might have shown patterns of blood belonging to the victims to prove any movements about the house were destroyed on orders of the police. Plus the ballistic evidence produced in court appears to be incorrect. So If someone produces a scenario what do you base it on?

But I have one question to ask you - if you believe JB did it when the police arrived that house would have been completely silent and no signs of movement at all . And taking into account this was before all todays H&S assesments etc, and the fact that they knew there were two young children possibly bleeding to death , why did they wait outside ( with JB with them ) for HOURS before going into the house? They would have heard nothing ( because all would have been dead) they would have seen nothing  so WHY wait so long even when the armed police arrived. This is the bit that to me does not add up. But if you see the entries in the police logs it makes perfect sense.

The police waited for armed response.

I do not know the protocol the armed response team have in this situation. However everyone at the time agreed to wait for daylight. There is no record of Jeremy complaining about this.

A loud hailer tried to get a response, but met with silence. Although several years later Jeremy tried to claim there were conversations after reading a police log written by someone not at the house. Indirectly claiming the police & armed response unit were already trying to frame him even before the bodies had been found.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 02:54:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #347 on: December 06, 2013, 02:57:PM »
That is a start Alias.

The problem I have is fitting in at least five minutes where Neville is cowering in the kitchen making two phone calls. Dial up phones are slow & the numbers in Essex are long. An asleep Jeremy may not answer for several rings.

She is either going crazy, so there is no time to make a phone call. Or she is not going crazy, so why make the phone calls ?


To be honest I have never answered a phone at 3am !





I have and it's not to be recommended. Adam, when the term "going crazy" is uttered we all draw on our own experiences for it's meaning and it means different things to different people.

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #348 on: December 06, 2013, 02:58:PM »
I cant give you the scenario because the final position of the bodies was not clear , plus in the police exercise the bodies were moved as was the gun and its not clear about when or who took the photos or when. plus the carpets etc that might have shown patterns of blood belonging to the victims to prove any movements about the house were destroyed on orders of the police. Plus the ballistic evidence produced in court appears to be incorrect. So If someone produces a scenario what do you base it on?

But I have one question to ask you - if you believe JB did it when the police arrived that house would have been completely silent and no signs of movement at all . And taking into account this was before all todays H&S assesments etc, and the fact that they knew there were two young children possibly bleeding to death , why did they wait outside ( with JB with them ) for HOURS before going into the house? They would have heard nothing ( because all would have been dead) they would have seen nothing  so WHY wait so long even when the armed police arrived. This is the bit that to me does not add up. But if you see the entries in the police logs it makes perfect sense.

We do know a lot.

What rooms the bodies were in. How many bullets each person had. The kitchen fight. Where the gun is. Where the bedroom & kitchen phones were.

That is enough to make up a scenario. I did.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #349 on: December 06, 2013, 03:06:PM »



I have and it's not to be recommended. Adam, when the term "going crazy" is uttered we all draw on our own experiences for it's meaning and it means different things to different people.

Agree.

Crazy - running around the house killing people.

No time to make two phone calls.


Crazy - holding a gun & being a immature. Pretending to be Clint Eastwood. Asking how it works etc. Keeping Neville awake.

No point in making phone calls.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline tyler

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #350 on: December 06, 2013, 03:09:PM »
We don't know where the gun was found. WPC Jeapes sighted a rifle in the window of the box room that connects main bedroom to the twins room. Not long after this sighting,the raid team went in. One of the raid team members does not recall any rifle on or near SC's body when he first saw her on entry. Also,we don't know where the bodies were found. Police logs have one male and one female being found on entry - one murder and one suicide. Around 20 minutes later,a further 3 bodies were discovered upstairs. This does not tally with the 'official' version from EP. JB's defence team had to take EP to court to obtain those police logs. So,would be interested in how you would adapt your 'scenario' to explain how 2 bodies downstairs and 3 upstairs became one down and 4 up?

Offline Alias

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #351 on: December 06, 2013, 03:13:PM »
That is a start Alias.

The problem I have is fitting in at least five minutes where Neville is cowering in the kitchen making two phone calls. Dial up phones are slow & the numbers there are long. An asleep Jeremy may not answer for several rings.

She is either going crazy, so there is no time to make a phone call. Or she is not going crazy, so why make the phone calls ?


To be honest I have never answered a phone at 3am !

I have!

OK, I will give in to you request for a "scenario". It is bound to be flawed, and I don´t really like doing this, but here goes.
I believe the twins were shot first. In a way I think they were the main target; the twins and Sheila herself. Sheila had some very unsettling thoughts about them: they were the Devil´s children, and she was afraid they were capable of raping and killing her (Sheila´s own words). Also keeping in mind June´s words to Sheila: You are the Devil´s child, in her twisted mind Sheila could have done this as a revenge to/request from her mother.
The shots woke her parents up, or Sheila came to the bedroom with the rifle shouting at them, I don´t know. Her parents in their wildest dreams would not imagine she had shot the twins or would shoot any of them - if they had heard the shots, they would have thought she just shot into walls, floor or ceiling in the corridor. Perhaps Neville managed to calm her down momentarily and thought it would be safe to run downstairs to alert Jeremy (and the police??). Then all hell broke lose in the bedroom, perhaps shouting, perhaps Sheila shot June who was still in bed, petrified. Neville heard this.
Enter Neville in the bedroom, got shot four times, stumbled down the stairs, got shot again on the way down. Sheila after him. The fight took place - Neville, severely injured, would not have been hard for Sheila to overpower, I think he received some of the beating sitting down actually. Why the fight took place, I don´t know, probably because she needed to reloand the rifle, maybe paired with the fact that Sheila felt especially betrayed by Neville who had hitherto been on her side, but recently had agreed that it would be a good idea to put the twins in foster care. Who knows.
Sheila goes upstairs, shoots June between the eyes as a final act of revenge and contempt.
Sheila might not have gone to bed at all that night (stomach contents support this - the look of her bed supports this) and would have still be wearing her day clothes during the killings. She might have have taken off those clothes, put them in soak (sounds odd, but the atmosphere about Sheila in death is "clean", she looks very, very clean. Perhaps this whole thing was a catharsis for her), taken a bath and put on her night gown, prepering herself for her suicide, reading the Bible, then shooting herself close to her mother for whom she had done all this: ridding the world of the "Devil´s children": Herself and the twins. "Ha, mother, see what I did, I did it FOR YOU!"

This makes sense to me, there is a logic in it, if I may say so myself! Sheila was a woman who had lost EVERYTHING. Her career, all petty jobs, her husband, her sanity and was now about to lose her children, whom she had already lost partially.

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #352 on: December 06, 2013, 03:16:PM »
Agree.

Crazy - running around the house killing people.

No time to make two phone calls.


Crazy - holding a gun & being a immature. Pretending to be Clint Eastwood. Asking how it works etc. Keeping Neville awake.

No point in making phone calls.





Or how about crazy as in not responding. As in talking/arguing with someone/something unseen, very quietly, maybe even talking to the gun itself, just wandering. Plenty of time to make a call..............but at what point, she'll come to her senses any moment, won't she?

Offline susan

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #353 on: December 06, 2013, 03:20:PM »
Alias excellent post all of which I agree with.  I think Ralph was beaten whilst in a sitting position and the burn marks inflicted on his back around the same time think both acts were acts of contempt as Sheila I am sure would have felt badly let down by her Father who was always her rock and to think he may have allowed her boys to be taken away from her was just too much after all the other events leading upto her visit to WHF.  Very sad indeed :(

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #354 on: December 06, 2013, 03:22:PM »
Thank you Alias.

That is a different & interesting scenario I can think and comment about. After I have been to the gym !
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #355 on: December 06, 2013, 03:27:PM »
I have!

OK, I will give in to you request for a "scenario". It is bound to be flawed, and I don´t really like doing this, but here goes.
I believe the twins were shot first. In a way I think they were the main target; the twins and Sheila herself. Sheila had some very unsettling thoughts about them: they were the Devil´s children, and she was afraid they were capable of raping and killing her (Sheila´s own words). Also keeping in mind June´s words to Sheila: You are the Devil´s child, in her twisted mind Sheila could have done this as a revenge to/request from her mother.
The shots woke her parents up, or Sheila came to the bedroom with the rifle shouting at them, I don´t know. Her parents in their wildest dreams would not imagine she had shot the twins or would shoot any of them - if they had heard the shots, they would have thought she just shot into walls, floor or ceiling in the corridor. Perhaps Neville managed to calm her down momentarily and thought it would be safe to run downstairs to alert Jeremy (and the police??). Then all hell broke lose in the bedroom, perhaps shouting, perhaps Sheila shot June who was still in bed, petrified. Neville heard this.
Enter Neville in the bedroom, got shot four times, stumbled down the stairs, got shot again on the way down. Sheila after him. The fight took place - Neville, severely injured, would not have been hard for Sheila to overpower, I think he received some of the beating sitting down actually. Why the fight took place, I don´t know, probably because she needed to reloand the rifle, maybe paired with the fact that Sheila felt especially betrayed by Neville who had hitherto been on her side, but recently had agreed that it would be a good idea to put the twins in foster care. Who knows.
Sheila goes upstairs, shoots June between the eyes as a final act of revenge and contempt.
Sheila might not have gone to bed at all that night (stomach contents support this - the look of her bed supports this) and would have still be wearing her day clothes during the killings. She might have have taken off those clothes, put them in soak (sounds odd, but the atmosphere about Sheila in death is "clean", she looks very, very clean. Perhaps this whole thing was a catharsis for her), taken a bath and put on her night gown, prepering herself for her suicide, reading the Bible, then shooting herself close to her mother for whom she had done all this: ridding the world of the "Devil´s children": Herself and the twins. "Ha, mother, see what I did, I did it FOR YOU!"

This makes sense to me, there is a logic in it, if I may say so myself! Sheila was a woman who had lost EVERYTHING. Her career, all petty jobs, her husband, her sanity and was now about to lose her children, whom she had already lost partially.



Alias, I can go with all of that. In the last 18 weeks of Sheila's life, I believe EVERYTHING she'd ever craved had been ripped away from her. I believe that every "If only" fantasy had been exploded and there was nothing left.

Offline Alias

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #356 on: December 06, 2013, 03:29:PM »
Thank you Alias.

That is a different & interesting scenario I can think and comment about. After I have been to the gym !

Thanks, susie and Adam. This is how I have always imagined the killings, and I am probably wrong, but still it makes a lot of sense to me and is quite simple actually.

Have a nice workout, Adam!

I have another scenario which I contemplate from time to time. A third party did this - a third party with a voice similar to Neville´s, which could have fooled Jeremy into believing the call was from his father; but that is more far fetched, and I like to go with the simple, staightforward.

Offline susan

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #357 on: December 06, 2013, 03:30:PM »
Adam go and pump iron and think of the brilliant scenario Alias put up and whatever you do don't think of Barnsley ;D

Offline Alias

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #358 on: December 06, 2013, 03:31:PM »
Adam go and pump iron and think of the brilliant scenario Alias put up and whatever you do don't think of Barnsley ;D
HAHAHA

Offline susan

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #359 on: December 06, 2013, 03:36:PM »
Alias  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Barnsley indeed ;D ;D ;D