The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[mike tesko]

Jeremy's call to police (3:36am) - (1) - "Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", (3) - "He has got the gun, he has gone crazy, come quickly"...

When Jeremy was arrested and interviewed, he challenged the wording recorded in phone log 3:36am, by insisting that when he spoke to police on that occasion, that he did not say, (1) - Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", he told his interviewers that his fathers words were almost certainly, (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", and that it was the person who received his call who changed "She" into "Sheila"...

Now, if this is true, and I have previously argued with Jeremy regarding this on many occasions, face to face, over the phone, and in correspondence, then lets say it was the recipient of Jeremys call to police at 3:36am who changed, "She" into "Sheila", it surely infers that the recipient of Jeremys call at 3:36am, was privy to information received earlier in the form of Ralph Bambers telephone call to police timed at 3:26am, where he said, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns"...

The privilege of knowing what had been said at the time of Ralphs call to police (3:26am) had a bearing on the way information given by Jeremy in his call to police (3:36am) was altered, from (2) -  "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", into (1) - "Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly"...

Changing what was said by Jeremy at the time of his call (3:36am) was designed to make it appear that Jeremy had planted the idea in the minds of the police, that Sheila had shot everyone, and that she must have then gone on to take her own life, when all along, if Jeremy did not mention Sheila by name, but had merely said, (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", how was Jeremy to know to whom his father was referring to at the time of his fathers call to him (3:25am), and at the time of his call to police (3:36am). By the same token, when Ralph made his call to police (3:26am) and he told them, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns", surely it must be clear to everyone that police knew it was Mr Bambers daughter who was going berserk back at the farmhouse, so that by the time Jeremy gets around to making his own call (3:36am) to police, the police already know who the "She" is, that Jeremy makes mention of when he spoke to police in his 3:36am telephone call to them, which permits the recipient of Jeremys call to substitute the wording, "She", for "Sheila"...

If this is what happened, then it helps to establish that police received two telephone calls that morning, one from the scene at 3:26am, where Ralph Bamber told police, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns", and another telephone call 10 minutes later, made by Jeremy to police, where he told them, (2) - " She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly" - both logs were eventually merged into the same one, without an explanation for why a crucial part of what Jeremy had told police (She), was altered (Sheila)...

So, it wasn't Jeremy who told police in his call (3:36am) to them that "Sheila has got the gun", it had been Ralph who had alerted police in his own call (3;26am) to the fact, that "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns". By altering the wording of Jeremy's call to police (3:36am), from "She" to "Sheila", it allowed the prosecution to argue as part of their case during trial, and since, that Jeremy had planted the idea in the minds of police that Sheila had the gun and that she had killed everyone, and taken her own life, when all along this was not true - Ralph Bamber was the person who alerted police to it being, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns"...

[Martin]

Jeremy's call to police (3:36am) - (1) - "Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", (3) - "He has got the gun, he has gone crazy, come quickly"...

When Jeremy was arrested and interviewed, he challenged the wording recorded in phone log 3:36am, by insisting that when he spoke to police on that occasion, that he did not say, (1) - Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", he told his interviewers that his fathers words were almost certainly, (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", and that it was the person who received his call who changed "She" into "Sheila"...

Now, if this is true, and I have previously argued with Jeremy regarding this on many occasions, face to face, over the phone, and in correspondence, then lets say it was the recipient of Jeremys call to police at 3:36am who changed, "She" into "Sheila", it surely infers that the recipient of Jeremys call at 3:36am, was privy to information received earlier in the form of Ralph Bambers telephone call to police timed at 3:26am, where he said, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns"...

The privilege of knowing what had been said at the time of Ralphs call to police (3:26am) had a bearing on the way information given by Jeremy in his call to police (3:36am) was altered, from (2) -  "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", into (1) - "Sheila has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly"...

Changing what was said by Jeremy at the time of his call (3:36am) was designed to make it appear that Jeremy had planted the idea in the minds of the police, that Sheila had shot everyone, and that she must have then gone on to take her own life, when all along, if Jeremy did not mention Sheila by name, but had merely said, (2) - "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly", how was Jeremy to know to whom his father was referring to at the time of his fathers call to him (3:25am), and at the time of his call to police (3:36am). By the same token, when Ralph made his call to police (3:26am) and he told them, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns", surely it must be clear to everyone that police knew it was Mr Bambers daughter who was going berserk back at the farmhouse, so that by the time Jeremy gets around to making his own call (3:36am) to police, the police already know who the "She" is, that Jeremy makes mention of when he spoke to police in his 3:36am telephone call to them, which permits the recipient of Jeremys call to substitute the wording, "She", for "Sheila"...

If this is what happened, then it helps to establish that police received two telephone calls that morning, one from the scene at 3:26am, where Ralph Bamber told police, "My daughter has got hold of one of my guns", and another telephone call 10 minutes later, made by Jeremy to police, where he told them, (2) - " She has got the gun, she has gone crazy, come quickly" - both logs were eventually merged into the same one, without an explanation for why a crucial part of what Jeremy had told police (She), was altered (Sheila)...

And something else

“My daughter has got hold of one of my guns” contains a reference to a collection of guns. Jeremy did not tell them about a collection at that stage.  What copper would add a little creativity of his own in his log entries.

I mean, it’s like a Monty Python sketch. If somebody reports a stolen car, the cop wouldn’t write down “says one of his cars has been stolen“. Bonnett’s log is not a paraphrase of West’s log, unless Bonnett is somebody like Eric Idle.

[Martin]

What?!  You don't think that he would have tried to stop her killing herself? 

The sequence of events, as suggested by Martin is quite simply, unbelievable.

You are a clod.

[Neil]

That's a stupid question.

I’m not saying he must have heard shots. He may have heard something to make him think that he ought to phone the police, that's all.

In Bonnett's log he says "My daughter has gone berserk." I think you are one of those people who deliberately confuse the two logs, to make it sound as if the Bamber supporters think that Nevill would have phoned Jeremy after things had escalated to that point. Sneaky!

HIS ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION COULD HAVE CHANGED DURING HIS CALL TO JEREMY.

Things had escalated to the point where Ralph apparently told Jeremy that Shelia had got a gun and was going crazy. I would never try to confuse any situation, just retain an open mind at all times. 

[Neil]

You are a clod.

Don't type at me like that!

If you can't cope with having your theories challenged then perhaps this forum isn't the best place for you.
For the record, I happen to believe that Jeremy's conviction is hugely questionable.

If Ralf considered the situation to be serious enough, to call Jeremy and ask him to come over and help, then I can't believe that he hadn't first of all, forcibly tried to disarm her. 

[Reader]

When Jeremy was arrested and interviewed, he challenged the wording recorded in phone log 3:36am, . . .

Can you post the specific page of the inteview you are referring to (or give the date and page number of the statement taken)?

[Caroline R]

Don't type at me like that!

If you can't cope with having your theories challenged then perhaps this forum isn't the best place for you.
For the record, I happen to believe that Jeremy's conviction is hugely questionable.

If Ralf considered the situation to be serious enough, to call Jeremy and ask him to come over and help, then I can't believe that he hadn't first of all, forcibly tried to disarm her.

Just because it's difficult for you to believe, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Having grown up  with a paranoid schizophrenic, I can well understand why he wouldn't have tried to forcibly do anything other than try to humour her!! She would have seen 'any' confrontation as a physical threat.

[Caroline R]

This post is copied from an article by Ian Stephens, better known as starryian, at this blog.

http://crimeheartsandcoronets.blogspot.co.uk/2010/11/jeremy-bamber-guilty-as-charged.html

Here is the relavant passage

Stephens also mocks the Bamber supporters for thinking that Nevill would have phoned the police in a “hail of bullets.”

As a Magistrate he might well have had the local police number in his head.

As for the hail of bullets, that shows typical guilter dishonesty. Of course, the idea is that Nevill would have made the phone call to Jeremy before anyone had been shot and phoned the police when it seemed to him that Sheila had gone “berserk.”

Thanks for that Martin, perhaps 'Adam' might like to explain?

[Adam]

Thanks for that Martin, perhaps 'Adam' might like to explain?

Yes I did use a quote from 'Crimes, Hearts & Coronets' in answer to another post. Is that a problem ? 

Well done to the spotter.

[Nickos]

Even many of the guilty supporters don't believe the silencer evidence. But read the statements relevant to this issue - don't rely on what you have read in books. Get your info straight from the horses mouth!!

Anyone in particular!! 

[Nickos]

Don't type at me like that!

If you can't cope with having your theories challenged then perhaps this forum isn't the best place for you.
For the record, I happen to believe that Jeremy's conviction is hugely questionable.

If Ralf considered the situation to be serious enough, to call Jeremy and ask him to come over and help, then I can't believe that he hadn't first of all, forcibly tried to disarm her.

My thoughts also.

[Nickos]

I think it most likely that June was shot first while Neville was downstairs phoning Jeremy. Nevill hears the shots and ends the call to Jeremy and then phones the police. He goes upstairs to confront Sheila and she shoots him. Few people would face a person with a gun who is shooting at them. Nevill then retreats downstairs and is shot again on the stairs. There then follows the struggle in the kitchen with Nevill already mortally wounded. Sheila goes back upstairs after killing Nevill and June and then shoots the children. She may not have needed to reload until after Nevill and June were both dead.

I regard the above as the most likely sequence of events. If there is a reason why it could not have happened like that then I would like to hear it. It has certain advantages over other theories such as providing an explanation for Bonnett's log and for why Jeremy heard the engaged tone when he called Nevill back. If you don't believe Jeremy, then why do you think he would make up hearing the engaged tone?

Nevill 8 shots, June 7

Tot 15 - too many shots for the magazine (plus maybe 1 in the chamber) to hold. She (if it was Shelia) would have to reload after a max of 11 shots.

I personally don't think Sheila would have loaded a mag. to full (10) and inserted a bullet in the breach ready to go off killing.

[Nickos]

Would Neville go into another room & risk Sheila roaming around the house with a gun ?

Oh sorry I forgot, she was already doing this otherwise two 3am phone calls would not be made.

No, I don't think so!

Nevill would have tried to disarm her.

Your questioning follows my own reasoning very closely.

[Adam]

Good.

It just seems more likely that there were no calls from the house. As previously said it would take 5 minutes to make the two calls. At no time has any police officer said they heard from Neville. Jeremy said he received a call from Neville, which cannot be proved or disproved. It is a fact that Jeremy called Mugford at around this time, probably before phoning the police. If he had phoned Mugford after getting a call from Neville, he wasted valuble time while Sheila was in the house with a gun. Why ?

[nugnug]

No, I don't think so!

Nevill would have tried to disarm her.

Your questioning follows my own reasoning very closely.

thats assuming hes thinking in a completely logical manner at 3am in the morning.

he had been somewhat deprived of sleep.