The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Adam]

How would phoning Jeremy have helped ? It was no secret he did not get on with Sheila. The first things Jeremy said to the police was how Sheila was a nutter & they didn't get on. Jeremy was also over 3 miles away & at 3am may not have answered the phone.

I am 6 feet & 13 stone. If my 8 stone daughter started firing a rifle I would try to overpower her. Even if it meant getting hit in the body. A rifle is nowhere near as powerful as a shotgun & body shots may not be fatal. Neville was able to run downstairs & put up a big fight after being shot in the torso four times upstairs & once on the stairs. Only being killed after a brutal downstairs beating & further head shots.

[maggie]

Hi Neil. Sheila could have sneaked upstairs and started shooting whilst Nevill was on phone to JB. However,I don't agree with the part in Martin's scenario that Nevill hears shooting and calls the Police. Surely he would have dropped the phone and ran to his wife's aid - not waste precious time listing all the weapons in the house to EP down the phone line?

I agree tyler. Of course he may have just finished his phone call to police when he heard at least an escalation of situation upstairs, maybe gunshot and therefore dropped the phone and ran upstairs to their aid.

[grahameb]

How would phoning Jeremy have helped ? It was no secret he did not get on with Sheila. The first things Jeremy said to the police was how Sheila was a nutter & they didn't get on. Jeremy was also over 3 miles away & at 3am may not have answered the phone.

I am 6 feet & 13 stone. If my 8 stone daughter started firing a rifle I would try to overpower her. Even if it meant getting hit in the body. A rifle is nowhere near as powerful as a shotgun & body shots may not be fatal. Neville was able to run downstairs & put up a big fight after being shot in the torso four times upstairs & once on the stairs. Only being killed after a brutal downstairs beating & further head shots.

Well I suppose different people react differently to the same situations? The problem is that all we can do is speculate. You may react in a way that may surprise even you?

[maggie]

How would phoning Jeremy have helped ? It was no secret he did not get on with Sheila. The first things Jeremy said to the police was how Sheila was a nutter & they didn't get on. Jeremy was also over 3 miles away & at 3am may not have answered the phone.
I am 6 feet & 13 stone. If my 8 stone daughter started firing a rifle I would try to overpower her. Even if it meant getting hit in the body. A rifle is nowhere near as powerful as a shotgun & body shots may not be fatal. Neville was able to run downstairs & put up a big fight after being shot in the torso four times upstairs & once on the stairs. Only being killed after a brutal downstairs beating & further head shots.

When was he beaten? There is little real evidence of a fight downstairs, the police did admit they caused most of the havoc in the kitchen on entry. It was suggested the beating took place when he was unconcious or dead, because he WAS so tall the wounds to his head were probably caused when he was sittig down.

[Adam]

If he ran back upstairs into the main bedroom, he was in the bedroom long enough to be shot four times. But there were no signs of a bedroom tussle. Instead it seems Neville abandoned his family & ran back downstairs. Being shot again on the stairs.  Neville would have now been attempting to escape as he had already made the phone calls. Sheila caught up with him in the kitchen.

Was exiting through the kitchen the quickest way out ?

[grahameb]

When was he beaten? There is little real evidence of a fight downstairs, the police did admit they caused most of the havoc in the kitchen on entry. It was suggested the beating took place when he was unconcious or dead, because he WAS so tall the wounds to his head were probably caused when he was sittig down.

All it tells up is that Ralph was beate at some stage. In fact you cannot tell from this that Sheila beat him or that Jeremy beat him? As neither of them was wounds to their bodies consistent with any kind of fight.

[grahameb]

If he ran back upstairs into the main bedroom, he was in the bedroom long enough to be shot four times. But there were no signs of a bedroom tussle. Instead it seems Neville abandoned his family & ran back downstairs. Being shot again on the stairs.  Neville would have now been attempting to escape as he had already made the phone calls. Sheila caught up with him in the kitchen.

Was exiting through the kitchen the quickest way out ?

If it was me being shot at I would probably jump through the nearest window. But as I said, none of us really know how we'd react?

[Adam]

If I knew the layout of the property I would head for the nearest door.

The police, relatives & juries view is that there were no phone calls from the house.

Jeremy crept upstairs & started shooting with a silencer/moderator attached. Everything had gone to plan with June, who was shot without resistance. However Neville woke up & got downstairs into the kitchen dispite being shot, either to escape or phone the police. He was not surprisingly caught up & beaten, perhaps because the gun was empty. Then fatally shot in the head with a reloaded gun.

Jeremy then returned upstairs & led a half asleep Sheila into the main bedroom & shot her. He panicked after realising she was still alive after the first shot & fired again.

When the twins were shot is neither here or there. Whether shot first or last, they did not wake up that night.

[maggie]

All it tells up is that Ralph was beate at some stage. In fact you cannot tell from this that Sheila beat him or that Jeremy beat him? As neither of them was wounds to their bodies consistent with any kind of fight.

Exactly Grahame

[Caroline R]

How would phoning Jeremy have helped ? It was no secret he did not get on with Sheila. The first things Jeremy said to the police was how Sheila was a nutter & they didn't get on. Jeremy was also over 3 miles away & at 3am may not have answered the phone.

I am 6 feet & 13 stone. If my 8 stone daughter started firing a rifle I would try to overpower her. Even if it meant getting hit in the body. A rifle is nowhere near as powerful as a shotgun & body shots may not be fatal. Neville was able to run downstairs & put up a big fight after being shot in the torso four times upstairs & once on the stairs. Only being killed after a brutal downstairs beating & further head shots.

As I have never met Neville I would have no idea why he would call Jeremy but I 'imagine' that he may have thought he would need extra help in restraining Sheila. I'm only 8 stone but I'm not a pathetic, weak, delicate 'slip of a girl' that guiltiers try to portray Sheila as. I don't think she was either. BUT who said that the beating happened before the head shots? The head shots could easily have come first - at which point the rifle may have needed reloading. With no ammo left, she uses rifle to beat Neville.

[Caroline R]

If I knew the layout of the property I would head for the nearest door.

The police, relatives & juries view is that there were no phone calls from the house.

Jeremy crept upstairs & started shooting with a silencer/moderator attached. Everything had gone to plan with June, who was shot without resistance. However Neville woke up & got downstairs into the kitchen dispite being shot, either to escape or phone the police. He was not surprisingly caught up & beaten, perhaps because the gun was empty. Then fatally shot in the head with a reloaded gun.

Jeremy then returned upstairs & led a half asleep Sheila into the main bedroom & shot her. He panicked after realising she was still alive after the first shot & fired again.

When the twins were shot is neither here or there. Whether shot first or last, they did not wake up that night.

Even many of the guilty supporters don't believe the silencer evidence. But read the statements relevant to this issue - don't rely on what you have read in books. Get your info straight from the horses mouth!!

[maggie]

If it was me being shot at I would probably jump through the nearest window. But as I said, none of us really know how we'd react?

That is really true Grahame, people sometimes assume they would behave in certain ways in times of crisis and trauma but in fact shock causes us to behave in strange ways. The main thing I have noticed in my own behaviour is how everything slows down. We enter a different dimension.

[maggie]

As I have never met Neville I would have no idea why he would call Jeremy but I 'imagine' that he may have thought he would need extra help in restraining Sheila. I'm only 8 stone but I'm not a pathetic, weak, delicate 'slip of a girl' that guiltiers try to portray Sheila as. I don't think she was either. BUT who said that the beating happened before the head shots? The head shots could easily have come first - at which point the rifle may have needed reloading. With no ammo left, she uses rifle to beat Neville.

Good points Caroline, totally agree.

[Caroline R]

Good points Caroline, totally agree.

Why thank you Maggie!! 

[Adam]

Head gun shots before the beating ?

In Sheila's case she must have been in a really psychotic state to continue beating someone after shooting them in the head & killing them. I thought Sheila & Neville had a good relationship ?

In Jeremy's case, he was/is a clever person & smooth operator. Can't see him losing it & beating a dead person. He would be much too focused on finishing off his plan. He will also know a beaten 6.4 man will not support the Sheila theory.