The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Steve_uk]

Is it me or have we been here before?

Yes indeed Caroline,though new members should be granted a little leeway.I'm trying to put out of my mind Karl Marx's maxim:"History repeats itself:the first time it's tragedy,the second time farce.."

[Adam]

We do know what happened.

The twins were shot in bed while asleep. June was shot while in bed & Neville shot in the bedroom, on the stairs & in the kitchen. Sheila committed suicide or was shot in the main bedroom.

Whether it was Sheila in a psychotic rage or Jeremy, from first bullet to last would have been a short period. Probably not hard to work out the most probable sequence of events for either Sheila or Jeremy.

[Adam]

You seem unable to distinguish between known facts and your own imagined scenarios. You say

 “If Jeremy committed the murders, we will never know the order.”

But then go on to say

“However, it seems clear that June was shot before Neville.”


Do you agree that June was shot before Neville ? Another poster said June was a light sleeper but she was shot in bed.

The latter statement contradicts the former.

[Caroline R]

We do know what happened.

The twins were shot in bed while asleep. June was shot while in bed & Neville shot in the bedroom, on the stairs & in the kitchen. Sheila committed suicide or was shot in the main bedroom.

Whether it was Sheila in a psychotic rage or Jeremy, from first bullet to last would have been a short period. Probably not hard to work out the most probable sequence of events for either Sheila or Jeremy.

Obviously we know they were all shot, what we don't know is the order or the timings. You can make up a 100 scenarios but will NEVER be able to say 'Yep, that's it, that's what happened' with any degree of certainty. Which is why I said 'it's pointless'.

[Adam]

Do you agree that June was shot before Neville ? Another poster said she was a light sleeper but she was shot in bed.

[Caroline R]

Do you agree that June was shot before Neville ? Another poster said June was a light sleeper but she was shot in bed.

The latter statement contradicts the former.

One does not contradict the other - the context of the above was that June would have woken IF 'Jeremy' climbed through a window in the dead of night!! June could have been in bed if Sheila was responsible because she expected her to be there!!

[Caroline R]

Yes indeed Caroline,though new members should be granted a little leeway.I'm trying to put out of my mind Karl Marx's maxim:"History repeats itself:the first time it's tragedy,the second time farce.."

You must admit Steve, that we have gone over this so many times now and there are threads already covering it if a little time is taken to search the threads?

[Steve_uk]

Do you agree that June was shot before Neville ? Another poster said she was a light sleeper but she was shot in bed.

Yes she was shot in bed probably with the first five bullets which made a mark through the pillow. She made her way to the doorway possibly as Jeremy was reloading downstairs but shot fatally twice more. The Andrew Hunter Book Draft is a good read for anybody interested in the case.http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=2441.0

[Adam]

One does not contradict the other - the context of the above was that June would have woken IF 'Jeremy' climbed through a window in the dead of night!! June could have been in bed if Sheila was responsible because she expected her to be there!!

Good point.

Sheila would have been at the height of her psychotic rage & went on to shoot Neville several times in the bedroom & on the stairs. Would you not expect Sheila to follow Neville to the kitchen ? June had already been seriously injured, perhaps the twins were also dead.

The beating Neville took in the kitchen shows Sheila was still in a psychotic rage. Would she have delayed going downstairs ?

[Martin]

Do you agree that June was shot before Neville ? Another poster said she was a light sleeper but she was shot in bed.

I think it most likely that June was shot first while Neville was downstairs phoning Jeremy. Nevill hears the shots and ends the call to Jeremy and then phones the police. He goes upstairs to confront Sheila and she shoots him. Few people would face a person with a gun who is shooting at them. Nevill then retreats downstairs and is shot again on the stairs. There then follows the struggle in the kitchen with Nevill already mortally wounded. Sheila goes back upstairs after killing Nevill and June and then shoots the children. She may not have needed to reload until after Nevill and June were both dead.

I regard the above as the most likely sequence of events. If there is a reason why it could not have happened like that then I would like to hear it. It has certain advantages over other theories such as providing an explanation for Bonnett's log and for why Jeremy heard the engaged tone when he called Nevill back. If you don't believe Jeremy, then why do you think he would make up hearing the engaged tone?

[Adam]

That is one scenario.

I would automatically put the phone back on the hook.

How would Neville have got downstairs to make the call ? Assume June would be awake now & was being held hostage, but she put up no resistance before being shot in the head.

If Neville ran upstairs after hearing gun shots, he would have done so to save his wife, grand children as well as his daughter Sheila, even if it meant he died. Not to run away back down stairs straight away. The only other natural reaction after hearing upstairs gun shots would be to run outside & escape.

[Caroline R]

I think it most likely that June was shot first while Neville was downstairs phoning Jeremy. Nevill hears the shots and ends the call to Jeremy and then phones the police. He goes upstairs to confront Sheila and she shoots him. Few people would face a person with a gun who is shooting at them. Nevill then retreats downstairs and is shot again on the stairs. There then follows the struggle in the kitchen with Nevill already mortally wounded. Sheila goes back upstairs after killing Nevill and June and then shoots the children. She may not have needed to reload until after Nevill and June were both dead.

I regard the above as the most likely sequence of events. If there is a reason why it could not have happened like that then I would like to hear it. It has certain advantages over other theories such as providing an explanation for Bonnett's log and for why Jeremy heard the engaged tone when he called Nevill back. If you don't believe Jeremy, then why do you think he would make up hearing the engaged tone?

I HATE scenarios but this would be my version if I were to present one! Good post Martin, as always!!

[Neil]

I think it most likely that June was shot first while Neville was downstairs phoning Jeremy. Nevill hears the shots and ends the call to Jeremy and then phones the police. He goes upstairs to confront Sheila and she shoots him. Few people would face a person with a gun who is shooting at them. Nevill then retreats downstairs and is shot again on the stairs. There then follows the struggle in the kitchen with Nevill already mortally wounded. Sheila goes back upstairs after killing Nevill and June and then shoots the children. She may not have needed to reload until after Nevill and June were both dead.

I regard the above as the most likely sequence of events. If there is a reason why it could not have happened like that then I would like to hear it. It has certain advantages over other theories such as providing an explanation for Bonnett's log and for why Jeremy heard the engaged tone when he called Nevill back. If you don't believe Jeremy, then why do you think he would make up hearing the engaged tone?

What prompts Neville to phone Jeremy? You seem to be suggesting that the first shots are fired while he is in conversation with Jeremy.  If it were the case, that at the the moment he made the call Shelia was running around the house with a gun, would he not have first tried to disarm her?

Why phone Jeremy first, before calling the Police?

[tyler]

Hi Neil. Sheila could have sneaked upstairs and started shooting whilst Nevill was on phone to JB. However,I don't agree with the part in Martin's scenario that Nevill hears shooting and calls the Police. Surely he would have dropped the phone and ran to his wife's aid - not waste precious time listing all the weapons in the house to EP down the phone line?

[Caroline R]

What prompts Neville to phone Jeremy? You seem to be suggesting that the first shots are fired while he is in conversation with Jeremy.  If it were the case, that at the the moment he made the call Shelia was running around the house with a gun, would he not have first tried to disarm her?

Why phone Jeremy first, before calling the Police?

Because he may have thought she was intending to just shoot herself!!