The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Adam]

Adam  My concern is how did the silencer get into the gun cupboard and why were the relatives rooting through cupboards after the murders it was not their house and they found the silencer why did EP not find this crucial evidence and it was not handed over to EP immediately.  This should not have been removed from the crime scene by an unauthorised person.  Common sense tells you that had Sheila used the silencer she would not have put it back in the cupboard and if Jeremy had used it he would have cleaned it before putting it away or at least take it with him and get rid of it.  The police did remove silencers from the scene after the murders.  This stray one turned up days after

The relatives were suspicious. So they did their own mini investigation.

The police did a quick check on a murder/suicide case. The silencer was at the back of the gun cupboard in a box.

[Roch]

Adam,

What are you hoping to achieve on here?  It looks like some kind of patrician inspired assistance to the police / authorities? 

I'm not sure that constantly regurgitating aspects of the original prosecution case will achieve what you seek?  The same can be said for anti-Jeremy anecdotes. 

Why are you trying to curry favour with bent coppers and less than honest relatives?

[Adam]

I am not sure about the various reports on the silencer tbh -From what I have read if there was blood on it it was a mixture of two peoples blood. Other reports said only a protein was identified which could have belonged to an animal. It definitely could have been contaminated because of the way it got to the police and I am sure if it was today it would not even been accepted as evidence. Also there now appears to  be evidence that there was more than one silencer . Also the ballistic reports could not say the bulletts had been fired through a silencer. I would say IMO that if SC did it then she would have been in the throws of a catastrophic episode ( perhaps hearing voices etc) and would really been totally unaware of what she was actually doing - so I can not see that she would have used the silencer at all. If JB did it I can not see why he would have left that evidence and why the police did not find it in their search originally. IMO

Evidence that there was more than one silencer ? Well there would have been more than one in the house. They were probably all tested after police suspected Jeremy. Only one had Sheila's blood on.

We only have Jeremys word that the rifle did not have a silencer on when he left the house at 10pm.

[Alias]

Colin Caffell said that the effects of anti-psychotic drug haloperidol had made her uncoordinated and clumsy. Loading and reloading the 10 bullet-magazine and still managing to hit the target 25 times out of 26 shots was not a feat they could realistically attribute to her, even in the grip of a presumed psychotic frenzy.

Yes, that is probably true. However, as you know, Sheila´s dose of Haloperidol had been halved the last time she got it + she had gotten the medication weeks before the murders and was due another dose. So there would hardly been any Haldol left in her system - which is a dangerous state, very, very dangerous.

[HMEssex]

Yes, that is probably true. However, as you know, Sheila´s dose of Haloperidol had been halved the last time she got it + she had gotten the medication weeks before the murders and was due another dose. So there would hardly been any Haldol left in her system - which is a dangerous state, very, very dangerous.

Excellent point, Alias.  One that many seem to forget about.

[Adam]

Yes, that is probably true. However, as you know, Sheila´s dose of Haloperidol had been halved the last time she got it + she had gotten the medication weeks before the murders and was due another dose. So there would hardly been any Haldol left in her system - which is a dangerous state, very, very dangerous.

Was it Sheila who requested it was halved ?

Even if it was halved it should still have some effect.

It seems to be agreed that Sheila had the psychotic episode after a conversation about fostering. We only have Jeremy's word this conversation took place. 

Jeremy also said Sheila was non responsive & quiet. However suddenly went into a psychotic rage several hours later.

Maybe Sheila might have thought fostering was a good idea ?

[Alias]

Was it Sheila who requested it was halved ?

Even if it was halved it should still have some effect.

It seems to be agreed that Sheila had the psychotic episode after a conversation about fostering. We only have Jeremy's word this conversation took place. 

Jeremy also said Sheila was non responsive & quiet. However suddenly went into a psychotic rage several hours later. Maybe Sheila might have thought fostering was a good idea.

I think that maybe Sheila requested it halved - she didn´t like her medication: how it made her feel, as so many other mentally ill people: they hate their medication, but the alternative is worse. And dangerous in many cases. It was an irresponsible move of the doctor who halved it. Google it, you will see many examples of just how dangerous that is! (I have made a whole thread about this in the past, I think it was back when my username was abs.)

Of course it would not have an effect if it was halved, she got her shot a long time ago and was due the next! Minimal if any.

We don´t know if she had an episode after a conversation about fostering - possibly though. It could have been something else. In any case, Sheila was a very ill person who saw her children and her mother as very dangerous and threatening to herself.

According to everyone who knew Sheila, her moods were erratic and FLUCTUATING - which is typical of schizophrenics, so your point is moot. I don´t even understand that so many nons keep repeating this! Google it....

[Jane]

Was it Sheila who requested it was halved ?

Even if it was halved it should still have some effect.

It seems to be agreed that Sheila had the psychotic episode after a conversation about fostering. We only have Jeremy's word this conversation took place. 

Jeremy also said Sheila was non responsive & quiet. However suddenly went into a psychotic rage several hours later.

Maybe Sheila might have thought fostering was a good idea ?

NO,
 Sheila requested a reduction. Permission was sought and granted from Dr F who reduced it by a quarter. For some reason best known to herself, the locum responsible took it upon herself to reduce it by a half, leaving her medically unsupported and in a dangerous place.

Suggest you think long and hard about the circumstances before suggesting that she'd think it a good idea to have her children fostered. She may not have been a world class mother nut she undoubtedly loved her children. She's lost the chance of an ongoing relationship with her biological mother. She's lost the chance of reconciliation with her ex husband. She may have seen her boys as being all she had left.

[grahameb]

Colin Caffell said that the effects of anti-psychotic drug haloperidol had made her uncoordinated and clumsy. Loading and reloading the 10 bullet-magazine and still managing to hit the target 25 times out of 26 shots was not a feat they could realistically attribute to her, even in the grip of a presumed psychotic frenzy.

Adam, you amaze me. You come onto this forum. PREACH at at. Argue with every point one of us makes. Give every indication that YOU are the quintessential expert......................and yet it seems you have zero knowledge of mental illness. Have you taken on board NOTHING we've said? It would seem you either haven't OR you're so arrogant that you've chosen to dismiss it as having no meaning. We who have some understanding of mental illness, either through personal experience or education, would be more that willing to share some of that knowledge with you. All you have to do is ask.

Yet Colin was the one who remarked, "She finally did it"

[HMEssex]

Was it Sheila who requested it was halved ?

Even if it was halved it should still have some effect.

It seems to be agreed that Sheila had the psychotic episode after a conversation about fostering. We only have Jeremy's word this conversation took place. 

Jeremy also said Sheila was non responsive & quiet. However suddenly went into a psychotic rage several hours later.

It was a locum GP who administered the halved dosage.  Wrong for them to have done so, without knowing her.  Whether they would have done that without Sheila insisting she felt 'better/worse' is debatable.

Sheila had problems in the days building up to that evening, as many have pointed out to you.  The fostering was probably the last straw for Sheila.

Maybe Sheila might have thought fostering was a good idea ?

[Alias]

NO,
 Sheila requested a reduction. Permission was sought and granted from Dr F who reduced it by a quarter. For some reason best known to herself, the locum responsible took it upon herself to reduce it by a half.

Suggest you think long and hard about the circumstances before suggesting that she'd think it a good idea to have her children fostered. She may not have been a world class mother nut she undoubtedly loved her children. She's lost the chance of an ongoing relationship with her biological mother. She's lost the chance of reconciliation with her ex husband. She may have seen her boys as being all she had left.

The twins had been in day foster care at some family. As far as I know, it worked well for all, also Sheila. POSSIBLY she thought it was a good idea, we just don´t know, but if it had worked well in the past, why not?
Her "incident" (if it was Sheila who did this) could have been triggered by something else than the talk about foster care. Jeremy could have been guessing. We are all guessing here.

[grahameb]

I think that maybe Sheila requested it halved - she didn´t like her medication: how it made her feel, as so many other mentally ill people: they hate their medication, but the alternative is worse. And dangerous in many cases. It was an irresponsible move of the doctor who halved it. Google it, you will see many examples of just how dangerous that is! (I have made a whole thread about this in the past, I think it was back when my username was abs.)

Of course it would not have an effect if it was halved, she got her shot a long time ago and was due the next! Minimal if any.

We don´t know if she had an episode after a conversation about fostering - possibly though. It could have been something else. In any case, Sheila was a very ill person who saw her children and her mother as very dangerous and threatening to herself.

According to everyone who knew Sheila, her moods were erratic and FLUCTUATING - which is typical of schizophrenics, so your point is moot. I don´t even understand that so many nons keep repeating this! Google it....

My friend's wife has to make sure her son takes his medication. If she doesn't he won't take it. I wonder if Sheila was the same?

[Jane]

The twins had been in day foster care at some family. As far as I know, it worked well for all, also Sheila. POSSIBLY she thought it was a good idea, we just don´t know, but if it had worked well in the past, why not?
Her "incident" (if it was Sheila who did this) could have been triggered by something else than the talk about foster care. Jeremy could have been guessing. We are all guessing here.

Indeed we are, Alias, but where fostering had previously worked well, Sheila may not have felt that everything had been taken away from her.

[Adam]

I think that maybe Sheila requested it halved - she didn´t like her medication: how it made her feel, as so many other mentally ill people: they hate their medication, but the alternative is worse. And dangerous in many cases. It was an irresponsible move of the doctor who halved it. Google it, you will see many examples of just how dangerous that is! (I have made a whole thread about this in the past, I think it was back when my username was abs.)

Of course it would not have an effect if it was halved, she got her shot a long time ago and was due the next! Minimal if any.

We don´t know if she had an episode after a conversation about fostering - possibly though. It could have been something else. In any case, Sheila was a very ill person who saw her children and her mother as very dangerous and threatening to herself.

According to everyone who knew Sheila, her moods were erratic and FLUCTUATING - which is typical of schizophrenics, so your point is moot. I don´t even understand that so many nons keep repeating this! Google it....

Her medication and state of mind is a big issue.

Her ex husband Colin Caffell & other relatives said it made her clumsy and un cordinated. Barely able to put sugar in tea. I assume Colin had seen her recently to hand over the children. However other people say the medication was too weak to prevent the psychotic episode. Psychiatrists hired by the defence all said Sheila was not capable of such a murderous ramage. They would have all been told about her medication.

Jeremy may have believed that no one would swallow Sheila going crazy for no reason. So invented the fostering conversation as a trigger.

Her parents & ex husband certainly were not expecting it.

[Jane]

My friend's wife has to make sure her son takes his medication. If she doesn't he won't take it. I wonder if Sheila was the same?

Dr F lists this as being one of the reasons Sheila was a difficult patient to treat.