Author Topic: Fraudulent???  (Read 18093 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #135 on: May 02, 2015, 05:42:AM »
Wrong..........You should be RTU'd and do more research,



Sorry Pal.

NGB is correct they are all synonymous terms. I love when people vehemently attack others who are correct in the fashion you do. 

In American English the official term is sound suppressor.

In the Queens English it is officially a sound moderator.

Silencer is informal and is used globally thanks to movies and novels which also results in the informal term being used much more often than the formal designations.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #136 on: May 02, 2015, 08:48:AM »
Stevenson, I believe was a founder member of 'THE MANCHESTER McKensie', Organisation...
« Last Edit: May 02, 2015, 08:49:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline David1819

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #137 on: May 02, 2015, 09:20:PM »
Can anyone explain why this is asterisked on the bottom of the document please....

There are actually two asterisks as you can see their is one by the date.

There is a theory about the dates of when the silencer or silencers where found not adding up to the forensic documents. 

I have never really looked into it TBH 

Offline lookout

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #138 on: May 02, 2015, 09:23:PM »
Whose signature is it at the bottom of the page ?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #139 on: May 03, 2015, 01:08:AM »
There are actually two asterisks as you can see their is one by the date.

There is a theory about the dates of when the silencer or silencers where found not adding up to the forensic documents. 

I have never really looked into it TBH

The second is not by the date it is to denote the end of the comment.  The comment is contained within the asterisks and denotes this is not part of the original document. Proper protocol is to do this [comment] but asterisks were used instead of brackets. Brackets are also used when changing a word or words within a quote. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline David1819

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #140 on: May 03, 2015, 07:27:PM »
The second is not by the date it is to denote the end of the comment.  The comment is contained within the asterisks and denotes this is not part of the original document. Proper protocol is to do this [comment] but asterisks were used instead of brackets. Brackets are also used when changing a word or words within a quote.

Oh yeah, Reason I thought it was the date is because the moderator was found after the date stated (apparently)  ???

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2015, 01:09:AM »
Oh yeah, Reason I thought it was the date is because the moderator was found after the date stated (apparently)  ???

It was found August 10, turned over August 12, sent to the lab August 13, tested by the lab the same day and August 14 the lab notified police of the results of the testing- they had found human blood in/on it and that the red stuff on the knurled tip was paint. Later that same day (August 14) police went to WHF to search for the source of the paint and samples. It was turned back over to police so they could fingerprint it. The plan was for the lab to do a thorough analysis of it after police fingerprinted it out of fear they would disturb any prints that might be on it.

The rest of the month Cook took his time fingerprinting it including superglue fuming it and it sat in the evidence room for a while instead of being turned over the the lab. The Dickinson Report was critical because it said he should have turned it back over to the lab more quickly. He didn't anticipate them finding anything else of value and figured Sheila did it so wasn't concerned about them getting it. Cook and the others were as surprised as Jeremy regarding the concept of drawback and what it proved. So Jeremy was in plenty of company when it came to ignorance about drawback. 

 
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Offline Patti

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2015, 01:14:AM »
It was found August 10, turned over August 12, sent to the lab August 13, tested by the lab the same day and August 14 the lab notified police of the results of the testing- they had found human blood in/on it and that the red stuff on the knurled tip was paint. Later that same day (August 14) police went to WHF to search for the source of the paint and samples. It was turned back over to police so they could fingerprint it. The plan was for the lab to do a thorough analysis of it after police fingerprinted it out of fear they would disturb any prints that might be on it.

The rest of the month Cook took his time fingerprinting it including superglue fuming it and it sat in the evidence room for a while instead of being turned over the the lab. The Dickinson Report was critical because it said he should have turned it back over to the lab more quickly. He didn't anticipate them finding anything else of value and figured Sheila did it so wasn't concerned about them getting it. Cook and the others were as surprised as Jeremy regarding the concept of drawback and what it proved. So Jeremy was in plenty of company when it came to ignorance about drawback.

I always thought the moderator was tested in September?

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2015, 01:38:AM »
I always thought the moderator was tested in September?

The lab conducted the blood typing testing in September and that is when Fletcher tested it. In August the lab did testing to see whether suspected blood was in fact human blood and what the red stuff that looked like paint was.

If it had turned out not to be human blood they probably never would have done any further testing including not bothering to fingerprint it.  The fact human blood was found suggested it may have been used in the murders and convinced them to test it in more depth by fingerprinting it, type testing the blood and searching for the source of the paint that was on it. Cook was hoping to find Sheila's prints on it that way he could use it as evidence of her carrying out the killings.  He was bummed out by the lack of prints and didn't foresee the wrench in the works that would be posed by it after the lab analyzed it.  He figured it was useless since no prints had been found.

As a result of this he was slow to turn it over to the lab for through testing and that thorough testing thus didn't happen till September. So you are right if referring to the thorough testing.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Patti

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #144 on: May 05, 2015, 12:12:AM »
I now know who J Stevenson is who made the asterix at the bottom of the document ...here is his report and the document.


« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 12:14:AM by Patti »

Offline lookout

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #145 on: May 05, 2015, 09:54:AM »
Wow Patti,that's some report,though it doesn't surprise me in the least. The conditions in which the "blood samples" were kept,were wholly inadequate and as far as I'm concerned-------unacceptable.

Offline Patti

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #146 on: May 05, 2015, 10:07:AM »
I wish I understood it more Lookout.... :(

Offline lookout

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #147 on: May 05, 2015, 10:43:AM »
I wish I understood it more Lookout.... :(






In other words Patti,the tests were crap.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #148 on: May 05, 2015, 04:32:PM »
I wish I understood it more Lookout.... :(

The documents they saw didn't prove all the information available on the issues they commented upon.  They essentially claimed the documents they saw failed to fully provide a record of everything that was alleged at trial. Webster and others subsequently reviewed more documents and other information and ultimately these allegations were dropped. They didn't make their way into the 2002 appeal because by then it was obvious the claims were wrong.  Many allegations made were essentially brainstorming to try to get others to do further research or provide some idea of what to research further.

Not being privy to everything in the defense file means that we don't get to see when and why the defense ended up rejecting and abandoning various allegations.

The lack of disclosure about when and why claims were abandoned or disproved is used by the campaign team among others to press claims that have already been rejected. Such claims are useless legally but are used for propaganda purposes to try to garner public support.  There is thus a dichotomy. 

The fact the 2 CCRC opinions rejecting the latest submissions hasn't been released is similarly taken advantage of.  If the CCRC rejections were published it would eliminate the ability to use such arguments.  But since such arguments were not publicly smashed propagandists still use them. If the CCRC's reasoning were disclosed then they in order to keep pressing the claims they would have to try to rebut the criticisms.  The lawyers couldn't even manage that so clearly they would not be able to.

Webster made some extraordinarily wacky claims to the Court of Appeals including the suggestion the flake of blood was really just a flake of soot that had a little blood on it. He didn't make the claims Stevenson suggested though so that tells you the claims were subsequently refuted.

The evidence before the COA was that the flake was cut up into 5 parts, each part was dissolved, and 4 of the 5 samples produced blood grouping results.   
 
 
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Offline killingeve

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Re: Fraudulent???
« Reply #149 on: November 29, 2021, 12:54:PM »
Bubo bubo I have re-read the McKenzie report which I find unprofessional and all over the place.  In parts it is factually incorrect.  A far more reliable source re the blood evidence are the reports/letters between Bamber's defence and blood serology expert for the defence Dr Patrick Lincoln. 

Bizarre that this is without doubt the most important aspect of the case and yet only appears to have been read about a dozen times?