Fraudulent???

[maggie]

No no. You said that a moderator goes the full length of the gun. Perhaps you could put a picture of both a moderator and a silencer so we common unknowledgeable folk could see the difference.

Yes, I would be interested to see some pics please. 

[JackAll]

Yes I know that. But they are much bigger guns and would probably blow the rabbit to bits anyway. I'm not an expert though and I should think you could do as you say you can do? But isn't it well known among sportsmen that 45 yards is to be more certain for a kill with a .22 air rifle. I only heard that mind. As you know I am not very knowledeable in regards to guns.

A non-FAC air rifle max 50-60 yards.........An FAC Theoben or similar much further....

[JackAll]

Yes, I would be interested to see some pics please. 

Something like this...........

http://www.saddleryandgunroom.co.uk/Gunroom/SG_Hushpower.htm

[grahameb]

Something like this...........

http://www.saddleryandgunroom.co.uk/Gunroom/SG_Hushpower.htm

Ooh! that's a bigun. Thanks for the link Jack. So what was used on the murder weapon was a silencer, is that right?

[JackAll]

Ooh! that's a bigun. Thanks for the link Jack. So what was used on the murder weapon was a silencer, is that right?

Some arms manufacturers advertise their wares as being silent, but to what level 'silent' actually means is open to debate because a supersonic round cannot have it's report removed completely.

Moderators tend to make the report directional, thus not attracting attention from elsewhere.

Without seeing the inside of the PH one fitted to the Anshutz, I imagine it is what PH marketed as a silencer (which was used for air rifles as well)

Howver, you say 'it was used on the murder weapon' and I say it may have been fitted to it before and after the shootings; but I'll bet it wasn't on there when the weapon was being fired.

[grahameb]

Some arms manufacturers advertise their wares as being silent, but to what level 'silent' actually means is open to debate because a supersonic round cannot have it's report removed completely.

Moderators tend to make the report directional, thus not attracting attention from elsewhere.

Without seeing the inside of the PH one fitted to the Anshutz, I imagine it is what PH marketed as a silencer (which was used for air rifles as well)

Howver, you say 'it was used on the murder weapon' and I say it may have been fitted to it before and after the shootings; but I'll bet it wasn't on there when the weapon was being fired.

Here's a picture of the inside of the silencer in question:

[grahameb]

The gun was without the end screwcap. Which apparently was found on the floor of the living room?

[JackAll]

The gun was without the end screwcap. Which apparently was found on the floor of the living room?

Does that mean the threaded end of the barrel?

[campion]

So, Jack All, Wellcome to the 'Blue'

You opine that NGB should be 'Returned To Unit' (HaHa!!), then for your explanatory posts re Guns n' rifles,  Certificates n' Licences, Mods n' Suppressors, etc ad infinitem, it is considered you are 'Off Jankers'.
Can you give the Forum the 'lowdown' on Peter Eaton's occupation being given as a Gundealer? Would this generic term include for firearms and ammunition, and other appurtenances of the ilk?

[grahameb]

Does that mean the threaded end of the barrel?

Yes that is how I interpreted it. To me it suggests that perhaps the silencer was used and that the murderer dropped the rifle end screwcap and could not find it? How do you see it?

[ngb1066]

Will JB's own description do??

Now a silencer is what it says, it silences a gunshot just like in the movies. But they have no place in the real world and you cannot legally buy one for a gun. But the prosecution wanted to hood wink the court by suggesting that we owned a silencer which used to suggest that the shootings were carried out using stealth. No one would put a sound moderator onto a un to lower the volume of a rifle as it makes no difference to the sound we hear.

A sound moderator hardly changes the loudness of a gun’s discharge to the human ear. Its job is to stop the sonic boom reaching the rabbit before the bullet. The sonic boom is created when the gun fires like on a jet fighter or lightning and it’s a high pitched whip crack. If the rabbit hears the sonic boom first it would move out of the way.

The statement on the official website is simply incorrect, in several respects.  I have pointed this out to Jeremy.

 

[JackAll]

Yes that is how I interpreted it. To me it suggests that perhaps the silencer was used and that the murderer dropped the rifle end screwcap and could not find it? How do you see it?

Where to start........

OK. Right, the silencer and guts that I have see pics of appear to be what PH marketed in the 80s as a silencer for .22 rifles and air rifles...........how they decided it could be suited to both I have no idea as they have an entirely different way of operating.

However, for sub-sonic ammo it may have had some limited effect but IMO, not a lot of good..........but then what would you expect for what you can still buy these days for £25 new..........

I would imagine that its effectiveness would be reduced rapidly every time a weapon was fired through it, and by the time say 30 rounds had gone through it it would have been pretty much useless (applies to air and .22 rifles)

In all fairness to PH they did suggest it would improve accuracy for both .22 and air rifles........and it very probably did, because it acts as a muzzle weight which reduces muzzle flip when the gun is fired.

Note that these days a firearms certifcate is required to buy the same item even if it is for a non-FAC air-rifle, yet I can buy a non-FAC air rifle with one fitted as standard!!

I don't / didn't know PE, 'Gundealer'...well as an RFD, he would have been permitted to deal in any weapons and ammunition that were legal at the time including antiques. That means buy, sell, or hold licensed and unlicensed guns for individuals (and authorities if requested).

He would also have the responsibilty of reporting persons known to have illegal or unlicensed weapons.

He could not have traded guns that required shotgun or firearms certificates if he was not an RFD.

I wonder why NB or JB didn't use him to supply the Anshutz.

With regards to ammo for shooting rabbits a .22 air rifle pellet is perfectly adequate.......a tiny piece of lead, compared with a sub-sonic hollowpoint bullet (and why hollowpoint..............pointless.......geddit?)...

.......in fact a decent .177 air rifle will do the job.

So why was it necssary for a .22 rifle on the farm? Did they keep chickens and a rampaging fox need to be shot?

[ngb1066]

Some arms manufacturers advertise their wares as being silent, but to what level 'silent' actually means is open to debate because a supersonic round cannot have it's report removed completely.

Moderators tend to make the report directional, thus not attracting attention from elsewhere.

Without seeing the inside of the PH one fitted to the Anshutz, I imagine it is what PH marketed as a silencer (which was used for air rifles as well)

Howver, you say 'it was used on the murder weapon' and I say it may have been fitted to it before and after the shootings; but I'll bet it wasn't on there when the weapon was being fired.

Parker Hale have always marketed this as a sound moderator, although in the instruction leaflet they refer to the design being based on the original Maxim silencer.  Americans often use the term suppressor. 

 

[JackAll]

Parker Hale have always marketed this as a sound moderator, although in the instruction leaflet they refer to the design being based on the original Maxim silencer.  Americans often use the term suppressor.

Pardon?

Take a look at PH's main trade distribution outlet funded by PH (PH don't deal direct)

http://www.bisley-uk.com/products.php?c=23


Anyway, regardless of what manufacturers say because they obviously can't make their own minds up; be assured there is a difference between a true silencer and a moderator.

[ngb1066]

Pardon?

Take a look at PH's main trade distribution outlet funded by PH (PH don't deal direct)

http://www.bisley-uk.com/products.php?c=23

That proves my point.  The dealer in your link uses the term silencer.  Parker Hale's own description is sound moderator, and always has been.  There is a scan here somewhere of the instruction leaflet supplied by Parker Hale.  I still have my copies of this, and it has not changed over the years.  However it does not really matter as the terms silencer, sound moderator and suppressor are interchangeable, as I have already explained.  I own several of them, of different makes including Parker Hale, and of different calibres, both centerfire and rimfire.