Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children

[killingeve]

It can be a difficult road,,but with patience,can be achieved. I speak from experience as a grandmother,and now a great grandmother.
As a family,,we initially all lived together in a large Victorian villa. Daughter had her own business,I had my work,g/children went to school,,not private,but good schools.
G/daughter displayed " behavioural problems " at the age of 10,,disobedient,wilful and difficult,,so I saw trying times ahead. My daughter was disappointed with her own daughters' behaviour,and was " put off " by it. In other words,,the only time the g/daughter dished out cuddles and hugs was when she wanted something. In the 80's when others were struggling,my g/children pretty well had everything they asked for come birthdays and Christmas.
However,teen-time proved disasterous for my g/daughter,and she got into the wrong company at school,and decided to experiment with alcohol,,so my thoughts were that she'll soon learn when she over does it,,,but she didn't. School was missed,,then when she went back to school,she'd go into the front of it,and go out through another exit.
We didn't know she was bunking until we received a letter from the school. Anyway,,her mother started to drive her to school,,and wait,and this went on,,but the drinking continued,lies about going to her friends' for tea. This was at 13 years of age. We were at a loss what to do,,because she was violent/frustrated,,she was in a dark place and there was nothing we could do,until I decided that a short,sharp shock was needed,so I contacted the social services.
They proved to be no help whatsoever and didn't appear to know what the best solution would be,bunking school,drinking,destructive self-harming,shouting and swearing,,she was like a wild animal.Her brother,who was 3 years younger,was petrified of her.
Do you know what,,I swear that if she'd had a gun,,she'd have used it on her mother and myself. Yet we gave her love ,everything she wanted ( probably too much and could have added to the failure to gain respect from her )
Then things changed ( not for the better ) in the year she turned 14. As my own daughter gave me a Mothers Day card/present,,she was in floods of tears which were near hysteria. Her news wasn't good. Her husband had decided to leave because he couldn't hack the situation ( very considerate of him,I must say ) and g/daughter was pregnant ( happy mothers day ) Because g/daughter wouldn't say anything about her situation,,and because I worked at the hospital at the time,I arranged for her to have it aborted. This,I thought would be a lesson to her. For all we know,she could have been blind drunk at the time and completely oblivious as to who the father was,,but I didn't force the issue in that area,,so at 7 weeks,,the procedure was carried out.
The girl never ever spoke about it,and we didn't broach the subject again. I thought things might now settle,,but the drinking and violent outbursts continued,plus her refusal to attend school.
One thing I couldn't do,,but felt like,,was to wash my hands of her. I tried and tried,because her mother was still trying to come to terms with her husband leaving,which left me as the sole carer for two children as well as the stresses of work,and a sick husband.
These outbursts happened without alcohol and one night she put her fist through a glass panel in the bathroom door,,which meant a spell in A&E. I realised that she was wanting to bring something to our attention,,but what it was,,other than her mind was sick,,we don't know.
She just didn't want to get close to anyone,try as we might. Her father leaving, exacerbated her problem as well or rather,I felt that it was giving her more of an excuse to kick off,,so when she did,I devised a new tactic. Instead of love,and trying to understand her moods,,if she screamed and swore at her mother,,I'd slap her hard. I'd had enough.Anyway,,she got the shock of her life and I told her that she wasn't the only one who could display violence,,that I wasn't going to put up with her ways any longer.It shook her to the core. I wasn't going to put up with my lovely home being wrecked by her.Her bedroom always looked as though it had been vandalised,and wherever she was in the house,she left a trail of destruction.
From then on,,the change was dramatic. The only downturn was that she'd flatly refused to attend school for her last year.I don't know how we got away with that,but we did.Nobody bothered us.
That same girl/woman,will be 30 next week,,she visits often and phones me every week,though sad to say,she hasn't got the same respect for her mother as she has for me. If there are any problems,g/daughter will contact me and not her mother. She knows that she can call,or see me if anything untoward arises. So my motto was to be fair,but firm.

I don't know whether g/daughter got hold of drugs.I didn't find any anywhere.

I remember one dreadful night when she was shouting and screaming,so I phoned for the police,,and a very tall, stern male came along and shouted at her like I'd never heard before,and she told him to get out,then began swearing at him,so he enticed her outside onto the public pathway while she was still swearing at him,and he nabbed her and whisked her off to a cell for the night.Needless to say,that didn't cure her,,only the hard slap that I dished out brought her down to earth.

So,as you can understand,,I won't ever be lectured on problems of the mind,,and even detachment disorder problems aren't just peculiar to those who are/have been adopted.
Junes' problems were bad enough,,but I think mine were a lot worse,with blood relatives,even.

Hi Lookout

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.  I'm sure it must have been harrowing for all concerned to say the least.

From your post it sounds like cries for help?  Especially around not wanting to attend school?  Do you think your g/daughter was being bullied and/or had some undiagnosed learning difficulty eg dyslexia?  Or was being abused by someone?  Is she ok now? 

[lookout]

Hi Lookout

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.  I'm sure it must have been harrowing for all concerned to say the least.

From your post it sounds like cries for help?  Especially around not wanting to attend school?  Do you think your g/daughter was being bullied and/or had some undiagnosed learning difficulty eg dyslexia?  Or was being abused by someone?  Is she ok now?

Hi NN,,I actually went through all the reasons why she hated school so much,,bullies,abuse,,etc etc. but it didn't appear to be anything untoward there. As regards the bullying,,I rather think at the time that she would have held her own against anyone,,she was so vicious.
She was bright,intelligent and very knowing,,as I used to think perhaps it may have been boredom,where some children can be streets ahead of others so are impatient waiting for them to catch up. Everything was ruled out. She loved being at home,it was her safety net and where she felt secure.
In her early years,she was spoilt,,I do know this,because she was very manipulative towards us.In fact she was a brat. I've got a photograph of her at the age of 4,,and I'd asked her to smile. Ha,,she pulled the most awful scowl you ever saw. Wilful from the day she was born. Even before,while still in the womb,whilst having a scan,her elbow was in the way,and the radiographer tried to move it,,but she was determined and back it sprang. So it was already there before she was born.
Nobody in the family was ever like her. Maybe one of her own offspring,who is a twin,,but nowhere near as bad as my g/daughter was.
G/daughter has a partner who she met 12 years ago,,who works for his fathers' business,,and they have 5 children,including a set of twins.
Now and again she reminds me that none of her children were going to end up like she did herself,,but she hasn't ever given an explanation for her behaviour.

[Jane]

Hi NN,,I actually went through all the reasons why she hated school so much,,bullies,abuse,,etc etc. but it didn't appear to be anything untoward there. As regards the bullying,,I rather think at the time that she would have held her own against anyone,,she was so vicious.
She was bright,intelligent and very knowing,,as I used to think perhaps it may have been boredom,where some children can be streets ahead of others so are impatient waiting for them to catch up. Everything was ruled out. She loved being at home,it was her safety net and where she felt secure.
In her early years,she was spoilt,,I do know this,because she was very manipulative towards us.In fact she was a brat. I've got a photograph of her at the age of 4,,and I'd asked her to smile. Ha,,she pulled the most awful scowl you ever saw. Wilful from the day she was born. Even before,while still in the womb,whilst having a scan,her elbow was in the way,and the radiographer tried to move it,,but she was determined and back it sprang. So it was already there before she was born.
Nobody in the family was ever like her. Maybe one of her own offspring,who is a twin,,but nowhere near as bad as my g/daughter was.
G/daughter has a partner who she met 12 years ago,,who works for his fathers' business,,and they have 5 children,including a set of twins.
Now and again she reminds me that none of her children were going to end up like she did herself,,but she hasn't ever given an explanation for her behaviour.

Lookout, I might suggest, although she may have expressed it differently, that there seems to be a determination about her which very closely resembles that of her Grannie's

[lookout]

Lookout, in my mind I've always likened you to "Big Bea" indomitable doctor in Tenko. Your post tells me I haven't been TOO far off the mark. You're one helluva gutsy, feisty lady and my respect for you knows no bounds. I just hope that you've had someone you could turn to for yourself, because I feel sure you will at times, have needed a shoulder. Love and respect, lookout. xxxxxxxxx

Darling April,,I've been blessed with a strong constitution to have enabled me to continue with my life,,,and have had my lovely step-daughter to share things with. Various experiences in life have made me strong,,and my circle of work colleagues going back a few years are " always there ",the 5 of us are very close indeed. I've been fortunate also, to stay with my other daughter in Australia during when she had a difficult birth,,I'd book my ticket at the drop of a hat,rather than sit 10,000 miles away,worrying.
Yes,,I've had a somewhat colourful life,,but it still goes on,life,that is,,and I'm always prepared for whatever it throws at me,no matter what.
I'm no different to anyone else in such situations,,except that I've been able to act upon them owing to my good health and of course financial situation if it meant long-haul.
My family know that I'd " go to the ends of the earth " for them,even though I'm not " visually " a mumsy character,,rather your stern,stoical persona.
Thankyou for your lovely post.xxxx. I just feel very fortunate to have come out the other end,,unscathed.

[killingeve]

Hi NN,,I actually went through all the reasons why she hated school so much,,bullies,abuse,,etc etc. but it didn't appear to be anything untoward there. As regards the bullying,,I rather think at the time that she would have held her own against anyone,,she was so vicious.
She was bright,intelligent and very knowing,,as I used to think perhaps it may have been boredom,where some children can be streets ahead of others so are impatient waiting for them to catch up. Everything was ruled out. She loved being at home,it was her safety net and where she felt secure.
In her early years,she was spoilt,,I do know this,because she was very manipulative towards us.In fact she was a brat. I've got a photograph of her at the age of 4,,and I'd asked her to smile. Ha,,she pulled the most awful scowl you ever saw. Wilful from the day she was born. Even before,while still in the womb,whilst having a scan,her elbow was in the way,and the radiographer tried to move it,,but she was determined and back it sprang. So it was already there before she was born.
Nobody in the family was ever like her. Maybe one of her own offspring,who is a twin,,but nowhere near as bad as my g/daughter was.
G/daughter has a partner who she met 12 years ago,,who works for his fathers' business,,and they have 5 children,including a set of twins.
Now and again she reminds me that none of her children were going to end up like she did herself,,but she hasn't ever given an explanation for her behaviour.

Hi Lookout

Those with Dyslexia are mostly well above average in intelligence.  I assume your g/daughter didn't enter higher ed but that she had some paid work at some stage?

[killingeve]

Hi Lookout

Those with Dyslexia are mostly well above average in intelligence.  I assume your g/daughter didn't enter higher ed but that she had some paid work at some stage?

PS I forgot to say did you ask her why she was the way she was?  She must realise herself if she said none of her children were going the way she did or words to this effect.

I struggle to understand a child/teenager displaying extreme behaviour for no apparent reason?

[lookout]

Lookout, I might suggest, although she may have expressed it differently, that there seems to be a determination about her which very closely resembles that of her Grannie's

Well in one respect,that's no bad thing,as then you don't have folk walking all over you. Though my own behaviour as a child was impeccable, although I say it myself.

[Steve_uk]

Hi NN 

Yes given all the upheaval in SC's life during the first 2/3 yrs it does beg the question re the "return and serve" 

http://developingchild.harvard.edu/index.php/download_file/-/view/1340/

SHEILA CAFFELL

Changes in caregivers

Birth mother - Christine Jay
Various caregivers at nursery - Box, Wilts
Adoptive mother - June Bamber
A.n.other - whilst June in psychiatric hospital for severe depression caused by her decision to adopt SC
Adoptive mother - June Bamber

Potential for neglect

Highly likely in the lead up to hospitalisation for the above.  Inadequate care in responding to SC's needs.

JEREMY BAMBER

Changes in caregivers

Birth mother - Juliet Wheeler
Adoptive mother - June Bamber

Potential for neglect

Unlikely.  Adequate care in responding to JB's needs

The weakness in this argument is that we don't know for sure how Sheila Jean Bamber(born 18.7.1958) was treated any differently from Jeremy (13.01.1961),because we don't know the quality of care from the substitute caregivers in each case. It may well have been that Sheila was passed from pillar to post and never talked to or cooed at,but we're speculating that all her surveillants were surly negligents,whereas Jeremy's nannies were goodness personified.

[Jane]

The weakness in this argument is that we don't know for sure how Sheila Jean Bamber(born 18.7.1958) was treated any differently from Jeremy (13.01.1961),because we don't know the quality of care from the substitute caregivers in each case. It may well have been that Sheila was passed from pillar to post and never talked to or cooed at,but we're speculating that all her surveillants were surly negligents,whereas Jeremy's nannies were goodness personified.

It isn't so much that the quality of care is in question as the DIFFERENT carers that a powerless child is passed to. One may have cuddled her when she cried, another may have left her to cry. One may have fed her in a way that was satisfying, another may have left her on her own with a bottle. At the VERY least she had 4 different care givers and she was stuck with them with only her cries to tell of her distress OR much later her passivity which could have been depression.

[lookout]

 Because June wasn't 100% herself,and knowing that Sheila was difficult,she was probably only too glad of anyones' help. Don't forget,,there'd be reasons why Sheila would have been pushed from pillar to post because those who did look after her didn't have a blooming clue what was going on in the mind of a difficult child,so there would be different faces,like pass the parcel. Nobodys' fault,,just the way the child was.

Invariably,it is the girl that will be difficult as opposed to the boy,for some unknown reason,,but I've found that out along the way.

Even today,if a child plays up,,palm them off with granny,she knows how to deal with it. I watched a programme tonight about two little boys,funnily enough,,who were allowed to rule the roost and the poor mother was worn out,not realising that two small children were controlling her,which is as bad,in a way,as an overly stern household.

[maggie]

Because June wasn't 100% herself,and knowing that Sheila was difficult,she was probably only too glad of anyones' help. Don't forget,,there'd be reasons why Sheila would have been pushed from pillar to post because those who did look after her didn't have a blooming clue what was going on in the mind of a difficult child,so there would be different faces,like pass the parcel. Nobodys' fault,,just the way the child was.

Invariably,it is the girl that will be difficult as opposed to the boy,for some unknown reason,,but I've found that out along the way.

Even today,if a child plays up,,palm them off with granny,she knows how to deal with it. I watched a programme tonight about two little boys,funnily enough,,who were allowed to rule the roost and the poor mother was worn out,not realising that two small children were controlling her,which is as bad,in a way,as an overly stern household.

Hi lookout have never read that Sheila was a difficult child?  I know Jeremy said she was a happy child.  Always thought it was puberty when Sheila began to show how troubled she was??   

[killingeve]

The weakness in this argument is that we don't know for sure how Sheila Jean Bamber(born 18.7.1958) was treated any differently from Jeremy (13.01.1961),because we don't know the quality of care from the substitute caregivers in each case. It may well have been that Sheila was passed from pillar to post and never talked to or cooed at,but we're speculating that all her surveillants were surly negligents,whereas Jeremy's nannies were goodness personified.

Hi Steve_uk

The only weakness exists in your mind.  In reality it is robust and watertight.  No one can deny SC had at least four primary caregivers in the first 1/2 years of her life.  One of which was mentally ill.  No comparison with JB's two caregivers neither of which were mentally ill.  Watch this space for me  Hohoho much, much, much more 

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve_uk

The only weakness exists in your mind.  In reality it is robust and watertight.  No one can deny SC had at least four primary caregivers in the first 1/2 years of her life.  One of which was mentally ill.  No comparison with JB's two caregivers neither of which were mentally ill.  Watch this space for me  Hohoho much, much, much more 

Many children have been dragged up and left perfectly unscathed. To my mind it's almost always better for a child to know its own biological parents and be brought up by them where possible. Look at all the recent cases of child neglect and violence,some of which led to death and there's a step-parent involved. The problem you have is there's no evidence whatsoever that the women(I assume in 1959) caregivers were substandard in any way:in fact when I look back to that time I see it as some kind of a Golden Age if anything. Of course it's easy to badmouth the dead any way you like:it happened in the David Bain case and it's a sure- fire tactic of any Defence counsel to bombard the jury with endless facts which have a modicum of credibility after a long passage of time.

[killingeve]

Many children have been dragged up and left perfectly unscathed. To my mind it's almost always better for a child to know its own biological parents and be brought up by them where possible. Look at all the recent cases of child neglect and violence,some of which led to death and there's a step-parent involved. The problem you have is there's no evidence whatsoever that the women(I assume in 1959) caregivers were substandard in any way:in fact when I look back to that time I see it as some kind of a Golden Age if anything. Of course it's easy to badmouth the dead any way you like:it happened in the David Bain case and it's a sure- fire tactic of any Defence counsel to bombard the jury with endless facts which have a modicum of credibility after a long passage of time.

Yes I agree insofar as the dodgy (to coin a phrase from MT  ) silencer evidence goes, specifically the lack of standard language, numerical expression, definitions used by scientists and the judge during the trial and summing up.

Stats show a child is more likely to be abused by a non-biological parent.

I think you will find that a new born baby brought up in a closed adoption is at a disadvantage by a lack of genetic mirroring and other losses/disadvantages.  Add to this burden at least four primary caregivers one of which is seriously mentally ill and the odds are very much against a successful outcome 

When you refer to bad mouthing the dead if you mean my criticism of June as a suitable adoptive mother I stand by it.

[Jane]

Many children have been dragged up and left perfectly unscathed. To my mind it's almost always better for a child to know its own biological parents and be brought up by them where possible. Look at all the recent cases of child neglect and violence,some of which led to death and there's a step-parent involved. The problem you have is there's no evidence whatsoever that the women(I assume in 1959) caregivers were substandard in any way:in fact when I look back to that time I see it as some kind of a Golden Age if anything. Of course it's easy to badmouth the dead any way you like:it happened in the David Bain case and it's a sure- fire tactic of any Defence counsel to bombard the jury with endless facts which have a modicum of credibility after a long passage of time.

But we're not talking about MANY children here Steve, we're talking about ONE child who bore all the hallmarks of having suffered from being passed from pillar to post at a time when she was powerless. I certainly don't recall 1959 as being a Golden Age although I'm delighted that you experienced it as such. As for "badmouthing the dead," are Myra Hindley/Fred West/Harold Shipman's crimes any less heinous because they're dead. Your argument here smacks of the defensive. How else would you defend describing a diagnozed mental illness as having only "a modicum of credibility"?