Truth of the night before

[darcyanon]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

[lookout]

No I don't accept this as June dropped Jeremy on the head for one thing. She was in a much more favourable position than most mothers who don't have half the help at hand June had,and I'm afraid her illness led her to alienate both adoptees. She realized all too late the damage that had occurred,albeit unwittingly,which is one of the ironies of this case when she was beginning to have a better relationship with Sheila towards the end(which may have engendered Jeremy's remark "I'm not sharing any of my money with my sister"),though not with Jeremy who was frightened of any rapprochement or relationship for that matter which might eat into his inheritance.

Hiya Steve,,a lot would depend on the age of the baby when it was dropped and on what surface it was dropped on. A babys' head is quite malleable while the fontanelle is still open,,and I haven't read of any hairline fracture having occurred,,so I would have doubted very much whether any lasting damage would have been done. Certainly Jeremy wouldn't have remembered anyway.
At what age was he dropped.?

[No-Bits]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

That's a fair point.

I think maybe it's just a discussion and maybe not directly concerned with guilt or innocence? 

[darcyanon]

I thought that everyone would be thinking Jeremy innocent but I can see there's both sides here.

[Jane]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

Hello darcyanon. What we are trying to show is that the two children have very different childhood experiences. I feel sure that June was as good a mother as she was capable of being BUT Sheila developed paranoid schizophrenia and the is evidence which indicates that certain childhood experiences can contribute to this, which for most of us makes it more likely that Sheila would have been responsible that Jeremy who was never known, nor has since been known, to have any form of mental/psychological disorder.

[lookout]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

Darcyanon,,I would say about June as a mother,that she did the best that she could,,particularly as regards Sheila during the teenage years,,which can be draining for any mother who's concerned for her daughter. Sheila had become pretty sick latterly and it must have put a great strain on the family,as well as a worry because of the twins. I personally believe that boys are much easier than girls when it comes to upbringing.

[No-Bits]

I thought that everyone would be thinking Jeremy innocent but I can see there's both sides here.

Yes' ish, there aren't many left who are of the guilty persuasion,  not because they've changed there minds, it's just that there isn't much left to discuss and they've moved on.

But if you can bypass the animosity, then differing views have been voiced, which is a credit to the forum.

[Caroline R]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

I completely agree - it makes absolutely no difference!!

[darcyanon]

Hello April. Yes, I can see your point. Is there any record of her ever being violent towards the family or her children?

[darcyanon]

Yes' ish, there aren't many left who are of the guilty persuasion,  not because they've changed there minds, it's just that there isn't much left to discuss and they've moved on.

But if you can bypass the animosity, then differing views have been voiced, which is a credit to the forum.

I think it would be very difficult to discuss this case without differing views.

[No-Bits]

I don't know if anybody has seen this already, or are even interested, but I think this is worth a read:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23686913

[lookout]

Excuse me for butting in, be gentle with me!, I've been doing a massive amount of reading over the last few weeks, but what does it matter to the case as to how good/bad June bamber was as a mum as surely she caws a good/bad mum to both the children in equal measure? How does it help decide who's guilty?

 I suppose it helps knowing of Sheilas' " hormonal imbalance " since starting puberty,,though I doubt June would have put down the problem as being medical,,which it was in my opinion,and would have been helped by having a word with a practitioner. I don't doubt that the girl suffered from PMT,,which today,is a more recognised symptom which can be curtailed. Women have been known to kill when they have PMT,,it's documented.
Then as time went on,,the condition worsened because it wasn't treated.I felt sorry for the girl because she wasn;t understood by anyone,,not even her psychiatrists.
Nobody made sure she was taking the medication prescribed to her,as it's vital to keep a check on schizophrenics and their medication.The only one they were certain she was taking was the monthly injection of Haloperidol,,and even that was dangerously halved not long before the tragic event,,and that's something that should never have been done.
Unfortunately,Sheila had all the hallmarks of someone who was about to erupt,when you consider her life that she chose to live. So yes,,I believe that Sheila had reached a point of no return.

[No-Bits]

I don't know if anybody has seen this already, or are even interested, but I think this is worth a read:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23686913

Obviously not directly relevant,  but the August thing stuck out.

[darcyanon]

 I suppose it helps knowing of Sheilas' " hormonal imbalance " since starting puberty,,though I doubt June would have put down the problem as being medical,,which it was in my opinion,and would have been helped by having a word with a practitioner. I don't doubt that the girl suffered from PMT,,which today,is a more recognised symptom which can be curtailed. Women have been known to kill when they have PMT,,it's documented.
Then as time went on,,the condition worsened because it wasn't treated.I felt sorry for the girl because she wasn;t understood by anyone,,not even her psychiatrists.
Nobody made sure she was taking the medication prescribed to her,as it's vital to keep a check on schizophrenics and their medication.The only one they were certain she was taking was the monthly injection of Haloperidol,,and even that was dangerously halved not long before the tragic event,,and that's something that should never have been done.
Unfortunately,Sheila had all the hallmarks of someone who was about to erupt,when you consider her life that she chose to live. So yes,,I believe that Sheila had reached a point of no return.

I think I agree with most of what you say here, but then I compare it to the evidence and then I hit a brick wall on Sheila. Apart from the above I can't find any evidence that she was responsible.

[Caroline R]

Obviously not directly relevant,  but the August thing stuck out.

Yes, that jumped out at me also!!