Author Topic: Truth of the night before  (Read 37176 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #75 on: September 29, 2013, 10:07:AM »
Didn't the bullets go through June in bed and make holes in the pillow? It's strange that none of the 25 bullets discharged by a woman in psychosis missed their target,or that there were no bullets left in the gun after her "suicide". Was keeping up appearances really too much for June,or was Nevill her rock,a relationship which Jeremy resented because he felt excluded from it.



If ANYONE in psychosis with a loaded gun in their hand, is aiming that gun of someone the feel must be removed, I imagine the bullets WILL find their mark, although nat all in the same area. As for the sugestion that Jeremy killed his parents because he was jealous of their relationship...........................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Offline grahameb

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #76 on: September 29, 2013, 10:51:AM »
Didn't the bullets go through June in bed and make holes in the pillow? It's strange that none of the 25 bullets discharged by a woman in psychosis missed their target,or that there were no bullets left in the gun after her "suicide". Was keeping up appearances really too much for June,or was Nevill her rock,a relationship which Jeremy resented because he felt excluded from it.
She probably thought, "Waste not want not". But yes that is a good point actually that there just happened to be two bullets left in the gun. How was Sheila to know that the first bullet would not be successful?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 10:53:AM by Grahame »

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #77 on: September 29, 2013, 11:04:AM »
We have to accept Jeremy wakes up from a sleep in the first place,manages to get down the stairs before the telephone stops ringing,that Nevill at the other end knows the Goldhanger number by heart and chooses to telephone this number rather than dial 999 himself,that Nevill manages to get to the telephone in the first place in an unharmed state,that it's immature Jeremy who decides to telephone the Police and not keep things in the family as was Nevill's justification for telephoning Jeremy in the first place. Far more likely Jeremy uses his answerphone to place a call from White House to Bourtree Cottage,then retrieves the tape on his return.

As for Sheila,we are not dealing with a mother in the normal sense of the word that final week let's be frank. Sheila is in a moribund state as evidenced by the Saturday night party,her reaction to the visit of the electrician,her vacant stare in the Tiptree store. Her personality is that of gullibility,of being easily led,of being unaware of people around her or of differentiating between the concept of fantasy and reality. Whilst this in theory gave Jeremy Bamber the opportunity to commit the perfect crime and use Sheila as a scapegoat the Jeremy supporters must also come to realize that when awoken in the middle of the night and quickly hurried by Jeremy under some pretext into the master bedroom Sheila would not have the first inkling of what was going on until it was too late..



RE your first paragraph. At a time when I was anticipating a phone call that I PRAYED wouldn't happen, I laid out, beside the phone, the numbers of all those I would need to contact. Some were numbers totally unfamilier to me, some were numbers I used regularly. I had the "luxury" of being able to prepare, thus making life easier for me at a hugely difficult time, for the call I was dreading. Jeremy had no such "luxury."

RE your second paragraph. How HUGELY amusing to hear from the ONE poster on this forum, who previously had proclaimed that there was NOTHING wrong with Sheila save exhaustion!! She'd made a sandwich for a party, she's cleared up the beans which had missed the toast, she'd had the twins to care for, she'd travelled from London to Essex, she was pre menstrual PERLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!!!!!!! But WAIT!!!!! NOW, she can't even be called a "mother in the normal sense of the word" I wonder what caused this EXTREME turnaround. The person you describe her as being COULD have simply been on recreational drugs. I wonder which description of her the Bambers would have preferred. Would they have been willing to share with those of their family and wider world that their daughter was a PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC who would NEVER be cured, OR would they have preferred them to think that on occasions she took a little too much of a naughty substance and would "grow out of it." You RANT about how much Jeremy knew of her condition and how he used it to his advantage, but other than what he MAY have picked up outside the family, which wouldn't have been VERY much because we know that Jeremy had little time for anything remotely academic, the sum of what he ACTUALLY knew was in what he said to the police. I would stake my life on that Sheila's condition was NEVER mentioned, other than in private conversation, when it couldn't be avoided, between June and Nevill and they couldn't have known the full facts because Sheila was over 21, an adult, and her consultant was forbidden by law to divulge details of her illness with  ANYONE without Sheila's express permission. I really don't think ANYONE in WHF knew the full extent of the ramifications of Sheila's condition because none would have been entirely sure of what the condition was, partly because they didn't WANT to know.

Offline Alias

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #78 on: September 29, 2013, 11:16:AM »
Steve pointed out in a post that it was a very busy time at the farm when Sheila and her boys arrived, and he has a good point, it must have been a very busy time.
Why then did the stay come about in the first place? Why not wait until the harvest was in (just a few days, a week?), and everybody could relax more? Was it because of an imminent crisis in Sheila´s condition, had she had a serious "episode" leading up to the stay, leaving Colin exhausted and at his wit´s end seeing no other option than to escort his sons and ex wife to her parents?

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #79 on: September 29, 2013, 11:25:AM »
Steve pointed out in a post that it was a very busy time at the farm when Sheila and her boys arrived, and he has a good point, it must have been a very busy time.
Why then did the stay come about in the first place? Why not wait until the harvest was in (just a few days, a week?), and everybody could relax more? Was it because of an imminent crisis in Sheila´s condition, had she had a serious "episode" leading up to the stay, leaving Colin exhausted and at his wit´s end seeing no other option than to escort his sons and ex wife to her parents?


Colin was to take the boys on a trip to Norway, and the Bambers had wanted to see them before they went.

Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #80 on: September 29, 2013, 11:30:AM »


RE your first paragraph. At a time when I was anticipating a phone call that I PRAYED wouldn't happen, I laid out, beside the phone, the numbers of all those I would need to contact. Some were numbers totally unfamilier to me, some were numbers I used regularly. I had the "luxury" of being able to prepare, thus making life easier for me at a hugely difficult time, for the call I was dreading. Jeremy had no such "luxury."

RE your second paragraph. How HUGELY amusing to hear from the ONE poster on this forum, who previously had proclaimed that there was NOTHING wrong with Sheila save exhaustion!! She'd made a sandwich for a party, she's cleared up the beans which had missed the toast, she'd had the twins to care for, she'd travelled from London to Essex, she was pre menstrual PERLEEEEEEEEEEEEEZE!!!!!!!!! But WAIT!!!!! NOW, she can't even be called a "mother in the normal sense of the word" I wonder what caused this EXTREME turnaround. The person you describe her as being COULD have simply been on recreational drugs. I wonder which description of her the Bambers would have preferred. Would they have been willing to share with those of their family and wider world that their daughter was a PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC who would NEVER be cured, OR would they have preferred them to think that on occasions she took a little too much of a naughty substance and would "grow out of it." You RANT about how much Jeremy knew of her condition and how he used it to his advantage, but other than what he MAY have picked up outside the family, which wouldn't have been VERY much because we know that Jeremy had little time for anything remotely academic, the sum of what he ACTUALLY knew was in what he said to the police. I would stake my life on that Sheila's condition was NEVER mentioned, other than in private conversation, when it couldn't be avoided, between June and Nevill and they couldn't have known the full facts because Sheila was over 21, an adult, and her consultant was forbidden by law to divulge details of her illness with  ANYONE without Sheila's express permission. I really don't think ANYONE in WHF knew the full extent of the ramifications of Sheila's condition because none would have been entirely sure of what the condition was, partly because they didn't WANT to know.

Hi April :)

I have to agree with you here, because no one knew the extent of her illness other than those that treated her for her condition.  The only thing Shelia's family did was to recognise  that poor Sheila needed help and, they went to lengths to get her help out of concern.  What was said privately to Dr F stayed private till the time came when he divulged this information by making several statements to the police.  :) :) :) :)

Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #81 on: September 29, 2013, 11:31:AM »
Steve pointed out in a post that it was a very busy time at the farm when Sheila and her boys arrived, and he has a good point, it must have been a very busy time.
Why then did the stay come about in the first place? Why not wait until the harvest was in (just a few days, a week?), and everybody could relax more? Was it because of an imminent crisis in Sheila´s condition, had she had a serious "episode" leading up to the stay, leaving Colin exhausted and at his wit´s end seeing no other option than to escort his sons and ex wife to her parents?

Hi Alias :)

It was during the school holiday's so this might have been the reason they went to WHF....well one of them.... :) :) :)

Offline Alias

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #82 on: September 29, 2013, 11:38:AM »

Colin was to take the boys on a trip to Norway, and the Bambers had wanted to see them before they went.

So they can´t have been too overwhealmed with the farm-work then.

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #83 on: September 29, 2013, 11:38:AM »
Hi April :)

I have to agree with you here, because no one knew the extent of her illness other than those that treated her for her condition.  The only thing Shelia's family did was to recognise  that poor Sheila needed help and, they went to lengths to get her help out of concern.  What was said privately to Dr F stayed private till the time came when he divulged this information by making several statements to the police.  :) :) :) :)



Thanks for that Patti :) It's all to easy for us to sit here 28 years worth of information later, to assume that they knew then what we know know. It just isn't true. I believe they COULD have known more, had they wished but I feel there was an element of, if we ignore it, it will go away. I guess we've ALL been there.

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #84 on: September 29, 2013, 11:42:AM »
So they can´t have been too overwhealmed with the farm-work then.




Alias, it may have been a question of that week or no week and it's just occured to me that the boys would probably have been HYPER with excitement about their coming holiday, possibly making their care more difficult for June.

Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2013, 11:49:AM »


Thanks for that Patti :) It's all to easy for us to sit here 28 years worth of information later, to assume that they knew then what we know know. It just isn't true. I believe they COULD have known more, had they wished but I feel there was an element of, if we ignore it, it will go away. I guess we've ALL been there.

We can all look back in hindsight April can't we.  The internet was not available then and Jeremy would only know 2nd hand what the problem was.  Its might be fair to say that the Bamber's did not wish the extent of Sheila's illness to be known to the wider family.  However, on the night before June had confided slightly to her sister that Sheila was showing no interest in the twins or housework....and thought she could be persuaded to take an holiday.... :) :) :) :)

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2013, 12:04:PM »
We can all look back in hindsight April can't we.  The internet was not available then and Jeremy would only know 2nd hand what the problem was.  Its might be fair to say that the Bamber's did not wish the extent of Sheila's illness to be known to the wider family.  However, on the night before June had confided slightly to her sister that Sheila was showing no interest in the twins or housework....and thought she could be persuaded to take an holiday.... :) :) :) :)



But she never confided the REASON for it, did she and we have Colin saying in his book that NONE of the wider family knew ANYTHING of Sheila's illness. The expression "exhausted" is one of the many euphmisms used by the landed middle classes/old money when forced to mention things which they find distasteful and was probably the only word used to describe Sheila's "problem."

Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2013, 12:18:PM »


But she never confided the REASON for it, did she and we have Colin saying in his book that NONE of the wider family knew ANYTHING of Sheila's illness. The expression "exhausted" is one of the many euphmisms used by the landed middle classes/old money when forced to mention things which they find distasteful and was probably the only word used to describe Sheila's "problem."

No she didn't April and, Pam never expanded on it.  Even when Sheila wrote to Ann she asked her not to let on about it and Ann never replied to her...It was like the lass never stood a chance.  Catch you later.... :) :) :)

Offline Alias

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2013, 12:53:PM »

Colin was to take the boys on a trip to Norway, and the Bambers had wanted to see them before they went.

Which further might have been an annoyance to Sheila. SHE was "forced" to go to WHF whn perhaps HER plans were different. She had to give in to Colin´s and her parents´ plans.

Offline Jane

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2013, 01:01:PM »
Which further might have been an annoyance to Sheila. SHE was "forced" to go to WHF whn perhaps HER plans were different. She had to give in to Colin´s and her parents´ plans.




Yes Alias, she was compelled to be there, probably against her wishes, because it's known that she didn't like visiting the farm.